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Symbols, History, and the Complex Tapestry of National Identity in California

Posted on 02/09/2025 6:36:56 AM PST by big bad easter bunny

Symbols, History, and the Complex Tapestry of National Identity in California

In a recent event that has stirred both local and national discourse, a Mexican national in California took down the American flag at a public park and raised the Mexican flag in its place, asserting that California was "land stolen from Mexicans." This action has reignited discussions about historical land claims, national symbols, and the layered narratives of conquest and colonization in North America.

Historical Context

To fully understand this incident, one must delve into the history of California and the broader region. California was indeed part of Mexico until the Mexican-American War (1846-1848), which ended with the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. This treaty saw Mexico cede vast territories to the United States, including California, in exchange for $15 million and the forgiveness of claims against Mexico by U.S. citizens.

However, the narrative doesn't begin with Mexico's claim. Prior to Mexican independence from Spain in 1821, California was part of New Spain, a vast colonial territory established by the Spanish in the 16th century. This brings us to an even earlier point: before European colonization, California was inhabited by numerous indigenous peoples with their own cultures, languages, and governance systems. The Spanish conquest involved the subjugation and often brutal treatment of these native populations, leading to widespread displacement and cultural erasure.

The Layers of Conquest

The statement from the Mexican national about California being stolen land echoes a broader conversation about colonial legacies. But as pointed out, the critique of "stolen land" can be directed not only towards the U.S. but also towards Mexico, which inherited Spanish colonial territories. The Spanish colonization of what is now Mexico involved similar dynamics of land seizure, forced labor, and cultural imposition on indigenous peoples.

This layered history of conquest and colonization underscores a complex narrative where multiple groups have been both victims and, in some contexts, beneficiaries of historical injustices. The indigenous peoples, the original stewards of the land, have arguably borne the brunt of these historical shifts, with their rights and claims often sidelined in modern nationalistic disputes.

Symbolism and National Identity

The act of replacing one flag with another in a public space is not just about historical claims but also about the symbolism of national identity. Flags are potent symbols of sovereignty, belonging, and cultural pride. In this context, the action can be seen as a protest against historical grievances or an assertion of cultural identity in a land where many Mexicans and Mexican-Americans feel a deep connection, both culturally and historically.

However, this incident also raises questions about the legal and social implications of such actions. Public spaces are generally governed by laws that dictate how national symbols are displayed, reflecting the sovereignty and unity of the current nation-state. Acts like these can polarize communities, leading to debates over freedom of expression versus respect for national symbols.

Moving Forward

Understanding these events requires a nuanced approach that acknowledges the pain and complexity of historical injustices without simplifying them into binary narratives. Education on this multifaceted history, fostering dialogue between communities, and recognizing the rights and historical trauma of indigenous peoples could pave the way for more constructive discussions.

Moreover, this incident highlights the ongoing need for societies to reconcile with their pasts in ways that are inclusive and forward-looking. Recognizing the multiple layers of history in California - from Native American stewardship to Spanish colonization, Mexican governance, and American statehood - can help in building a shared narrative that respects all these dimensions.

Conclusion

The flag incident in California is not just about a piece of cloth or a territorial claim; it's a reminder of how history, identity, and symbolism intertwine in contemporary society. It challenges us to think critically about nationalism, the legacies of colonialism, and how we can address these issues in a manner that promotes understanding and healing rather than division.


TOPICS: Politics
KEYWORDS: grok

1 posted on 02/09/2025 6:36:56 AM PST by big bad easter bunny
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To: big bad easter bunny

She shoulda raised the Spanish flag.


2 posted on 02/09/2025 6:39:42 AM PST by Paladin2
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To: big bad easter bunny

native stewardship, actual meaning, do whatever it takes to get next drink of water, next meal and not freeze to death in the winter.


3 posted on 02/09/2025 6:46:37 AM PST by Waverunner
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To: Paladin2
She shoulda raised the Spanish flag.

Or maybe the English flag. Francis Drake, the English privateer, claimed California for England when he landed here in 1579.

4 posted on 02/09/2025 6:54:02 AM PST by Fiji Hill
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To: big bad easter bunny

CA is doing a first-rate job of returning to its previous existence....as a failed third-world state.


5 posted on 02/09/2025 6:56:47 AM PST by Da Coyote
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To: Paladin2

The first mistake was publication of government documents in multiple languages.

All immigrants should be encouraged to learn English.


6 posted on 02/09/2025 6:58:48 AM PST by hoosierham (Freedom isnt free)
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To: big bad easter bunny

National Identity in California

Note red star on flag.


7 posted on 02/09/2025 7:01:11 AM PST by Vaduz
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To: hoosierham

I am fine with someone who identifies as an AMERICAN of Mexican(or other) origin.But as a citizen to claim dual status is wrong. No man can serve two masters.


8 posted on 02/09/2025 7:02:25 AM PST by hoosierham (Freedom isnt free)
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To: big bad easter bunny
Contrary to myth, the Indians who lost the land were not created on it but took the land from others before them. And the first to claim the land took it from wild creatures who lived there in complete and natural dominion over it.

The absurd complaint today is that more numerous and technologically superior whites eventually took the land and gave it a far more productive use than the aboriginal inhabitants ever could.

And, as it happens, most descendants of American Indians do not live as Indians but fully as part of American society. Or, to put it another way, American "white" society has a large component of Indian and other non-white and mixed race ancestry.

9 posted on 02/09/2025 7:07:27 AM PST by Rockingham
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To: big bad easter bunny

“Recognizing the multiple layers of history in California - from Native American stewardship to Spanish colonization, Mexican governance, and American statehood - can help in building a shared narrative that respects all these dimensions.”

Dig deep enough any you might even be able to find six flags.

Mexico was an imperial power, like the US or Canada/UK, ruling over different peoples and intent on expanding across the continent. One might make the case that California and New Mexico should have had their own countries, but it’s a stretch to say that being ruled by far away D.F. was much better than being ruled by far away D.C.


10 posted on 02/09/2025 7:10:33 AM PST by x
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To: Paladin2
"She shoulda raised the Spanish flag."

Agreed. Cortez was able to wrest control from the Azteks with a very small party of men because of local support from non Aztek locals who despised the violence, murder, cannibalism, and terror of the Aztek leaders. It became a Spanish nation for centuries. It was the defeat of Spain that gave control to the USA.

11 posted on 02/09/2025 7:20:37 AM PST by norwaypinesavage (Freud: projection is a defense mechanism of those struggling with inferiority complexes)
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To: big bad easter bunny

So, swarthy arseole, how about the French? Mekico was owned by them, too. Gonna give the Froggies all the fentanyl you manufacture along with the land.

Pi$$ off.


12 posted on 02/09/2025 7:29:02 AM PST by bobbo666
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To: norwaypinesavage; Paladin2; Travis McGee

Seems like a good time to post this, courtesy of Travis McGee, aka Matt Bracken:

“The True History of the Southwest, 101”

The amount of historical idiocy and fallacies surrounding the history of the Southwest is staggering, chief among them the “Aztlan” fairy tales. What’s the truth? How did the Spanish Europeans conquer the Southwest? The “conquistadores” (that means “conquerors”) did it with the lance, and the lash.

For example, in 1541 Coronado entered present-day New Mexico (which included present-day Arizona during the Spanish era) searching for the “lost cities of gold.” One of his first actions upon meeting the natives was to burn 100s of them alive in their dwellings, for not handing over suspected horse thieves. That is how Spain conquered the natives of the present US Southwest—not with hugs and kisses. It was certainly no love-fest between long-lost brown-skinned soul-mates, as it is often portrayed today by the delusional Aztlaners, who spin the “new bronze race of Mestizos” toro-mierda.

By 1821, Mexico City was strong enough to overthrow the even more decrepit and ineffectual Spanish rule. However, the distant provinces of the current U.S. Southwest were far beyond the reach of the authority of the independent but strife-torn government of Mexico City. These distant northern provinces received neither military protection nor needed levels of trade from the south. Under Spanish rule, trade with the USA was forbidden, but at least Spain provided trade and Army protection from hostile Indians. Under Mexican abandonment and neglect, the Southwest received neither trade nor protection from Mexico City.

For example, Comanches and Apaches ran rampant in the 1830s in this power vacuum created by Mexican neglect, burning scores of major ranches that had been active for hundreds of years and massacring their inhabitants. Mexico City could neither defend nor keep the allegiance of its nominal subjects in these regions. Nor did it provide needed levels of trade to sustain the prior Spanish-era standard of living. Mexican governmental influence atrophied, withered and died at the same time that American pathfinders were opening up new routes into the region.

Increasingly, a growing United States of America was making inroads into the Southwest, via ships into California, and via gigantic wagon trains of trade goods over the Santa Fe Trail from St. Louis. The standard of living of the SPANISH in these provinces subsequently increased enormously, which is why they did not support Mexico City in the 1846-48 war. In fact, the Spanish-speaking inhabitants of the Southwest NEVER considered themselves “Mexicans” at all, ever. They went, in their own eyes, from SPANISH directly to AMERICAN. To this very day, if you want a punch in the nose, just call an Hispanic native of New Mexico a “Mexican!”

So how long did Mexico City have even nominal jurisdiction (in their eyes) over the American Southwest? For only 25 years, during which they had no effective control, and the area slipped backwards by every measure until the arrival of the Americans. The SPANISH inhabitants of the Southwest NEVER transferred their loyalty to Mexico City, because all they received from the chaotic Mexican government was misrule, neglect, and unchecked Indian raids.

Since then, how long has the area been under firm American control? For 150 continuous years, during which time the former Spanish inhabitants of the region, now American citizens, have prospered beyond the wildest dreams of the Mexicans still stuck in Mexico. To compare the infrastructure, roads, schools, hospitals etc of the two regions is to understand the truth. The Mexican government has been mired in graft, corruption, nepotism and chaos from the very start until today. The ordinary Mexican peons have been trampled and abused, while only the super-rich elites have thrived. This is why millions of Mexicans want to escape from Mexico today, to enjoy the benefits of living in America that they can never hope to obtain in Mexico.

And because today Mexico is a corrupt third-world pest-hole, (despite having more millionaires and billionaires than Great Britain), we are now supposed to let any Mexican from Chiapas, Michoacan or Yucatan march into the American Southwest, and make some “historical claim” of a right to live there?

From where does this absurd idea spring?

At what point in history did Indians and Mestizos from Zacatecas or Durango stake a claim on the American Southwest? Neither they nor their ancestors ever lived for one single day in the American Southwest. The Spanish living in the Southwest in 1846 stayed there, and became Americans by the treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. There were no Spanish inhabitants of the Southwest who were marched to the border and driven into Mexico. It didn’t happen. The SPANISH in the Southwest welcomed American citizenship, which brought stability, protection from Indian raids, and a vast increase in their standard of living with the increase in trade.

In summary, NO current inhabitants of Mexico have ANY claim on even one single inch of the Southwest!

NOT ONE citizen of Mexico is sneaking into the USA to reclaim property their ancestors were deprived of, NOT ONE.

They are criminal invaders and colonizers, pure and simple.

It’s time Americans learned the true history, as a counter to the prevalent Aztlaner fairy tales.


13 posted on 02/09/2025 7:30:50 AM PST by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: big bad easter bunny

In school I was always pretty good at history... oh wait, no, I guess I wasn’t. I don’t remember.


14 posted on 02/09/2025 7:35:57 AM PST by Bob434 (NO MY BATTERIES ARE NOT IN ANOTHER ROOM LOL)
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To: FreedomPoster

That is the real history.

Truth is, Mexico never owned the land the Spanish claimed. The Spanish themselves were a tiny minority in a sea of Indians: 7000 in California vs 300,000 Indians. They had muskets and smallpox, that’s all.

The Mexican fantasy that “this is our land” - or “es mi Tierra” as Kreestal Aguilar shrieked the other day- is justt that.


15 posted on 02/09/2025 7:52:49 AM PST by Regulator (It's fraud, Jim)
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