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US Naval Aviator explains why in air to air combat a P-51 Mustang would toast an F-117 Nighthawk everyday
Aviation Geek Club ^ | November 30, 2023 | Dario Leone

Posted on 11/30/2023 3:21:06 PM PST by Macho MAGA Man

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To: Macho MAGA Man

I mean, yeah, the F-117 is not exactly maneuverable.

But if we applied them in their intended roles: the F-117 has a 4000 ft ceiling advantage and a 211 kt speed advantage(!), and was intended to fly at night... I wonder if a P-51 would be able to intercept in practice. I’m guessing not- the F-117 would see it coming via its sensor suite from a long ways off, and that speed advantage is killer with forewarning...

I suppose a P-51 operator could try and get the F-117 during take off / landing ascent / descent phases, but a modern SAM battery or fighter escort with modern radar guided missiles would be guaranteed death to the mustang. Come to think of it, a heat seeker would be pretty nasty to a P-51 too with that intercooler on the bottom.

Makes for some interesting thought experiments.


21 posted on 11/30/2023 3:59:01 PM PST by verum ago (I figure some people must truly be in love, for only love can be so blind.)
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To: Chode

An unrealistic one.

I’ll also speculate that the P-51 has a lower stall speed than the F-117.


22 posted on 11/30/2023 3:59:19 PM PST by mabarker1 ( (Congress- the opposite of PROGRESS!!! A fraud, a hypocrite, a liar. I'm a member of Congress!!!)
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To: rey

“I heard the North Vietnamese had biplanes during our conflict with them. Supposedly, they were difficult to shoot down because of the low altitude, low heat signature, and maneuverability. No idea if any of this is true.”

It’s not. Conventional ground fire (i.e., individual arms) could take down a biplane unless it was at altitude, in which case it would have been easy pickings for any US aircraft. Just think what Puff could have done to one.


23 posted on 11/30/2023 4:00:57 PM PST by ought-six (Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule. )
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To: Macho MAGA Man
Wow.   I read it all but only saw "like his opinion, man."
24 posted on 11/30/2023 4:01:00 PM PST by higgmeister (In the Shadow of The Big Chicken! )
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To: ETCM
so the “right place, right time” window is going to be pretty small.

Agreed. However if inside that window, any WWII fighter would have a better turning radius that a modern jet. That would be about the only advantage. That, and a jet pilot dumb enough to sacrifice all of their advantages to engage on the P-51's terms.

BTW I have an I love me room, ask my wife.

25 posted on 11/30/2023 4:11:18 PM PST by pfflier
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To: ETCM
so the “right place, right time” window is going to be pretty small.

Agreed. However if inside that window, any WWII fighter would have a better turning radius that a modern jet. That would be about the only advantage. That, and a jet pilot dumb enough to sacrifice all of their advantages to engage on the P-51's terms.

BTW I have an I love me room, ask my wife.

26 posted on 11/30/2023 4:11:36 PM PST by pfflier
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To: Chode

P-51 95.4 MPH Stall Speed.

Haven’t found it for T-117.


27 posted on 11/30/2023 4:12:56 PM PST by mabarker1 ( (Congress- the opposite of PROGRESS!!! A fraud, a hypocrite, a liar. I'm a member of Congress!!!)
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To: Freedom4US

“ Well … some pilots could probably fill up an entire room with “I love me” stuff. I figured you’d never allow it. /s”

Ours actually is a room.

You would think so perhaps but everyone in my house is actually as opinionated as I am… single seater fighter pilots especially - and on many things we disagree and are quiet about it. Big reason I come here.


28 posted on 11/30/2023 4:14:03 PM PST by stanne
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To: Macho MAGA Man

A work horse instead of a show horse?


29 posted on 11/30/2023 4:14:43 PM PST by drSteve78 (Je suis Deplorable. Even more so)
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To: LittleBillyInfidel

I got to go dogfighting in a T-6 Trainer against another T-6.
Pulled 3-4 G’s coming out of dives. Went vertical until the plane stalled, fell over on it’s back and went full throttle vertical down diving on the other plane. It was intense.
And fun.


30 posted on 11/30/2023 4:18:13 PM PST by Texas resident (Biden=Obama=Jarrett=Soros)
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To: mabarker1

i want to know how the merge happens...

can’t get bounced from above as it’s faster


31 posted on 11/30/2023 4:21:15 PM PST by Chode (there is no fall back position, there's no rally point, there is no LZ... we're on our own. #FJB)
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To: ETCM

I also bet the Nighthawk would be way above the ceiling for the Mustang.


32 posted on 11/30/2023 4:32:25 PM PST by I-ambush (From the brightest star comes the blackest hole. You had so much to offer, why didya offer your sou?)
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To: Macho MAGA Man

For one thing, a Mustang is a fighter. The F-117 is a pure bomber with no defenses.


33 posted on 11/30/2023 4:37:45 PM PST by DesertRhino (Dogs are called man's best friend. Moslems hate dogs. Add it up..)
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To: DesertRhino

I know this.


34 posted on 11/30/2023 4:40:03 PM PST by Macho MAGA Man (The last two weren't balloons. One was a cylindrical objects Trump is being given the Alex Jones tr)
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To: Macho MAGA Man

The “F” in F-117 was even part of the massive deception plan. It was supposed to send them looking for things associated with “fighter”, rather than “bomber”. Ben Rich detailed this in his book “Skunk Works”.


35 posted on 11/30/2023 4:40:56 PM PST by DesertRhino (Dogs are called man's best friend. Moslems hate dogs. Add it up..)
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To: Chode

A big ol’ magnet ?


36 posted on 11/30/2023 4:54:11 PM PST by mabarker1 ( (Congress- the opposite of PROGRESS!!! A fraud, a hypocrite, a liar. I'm a member of Congress!!!)
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To: rey

“I heard the North Vietnamese had biplanes during our conflict”

I read recently of US jets shooting down two huge Russian-supplied Antunov AN-2 biplanes during a brief chase. The Antunov is to biplanes what the P-47 (”Jug”) was to the rest of propeller-driven fighters.


37 posted on 11/30/2023 5:10:53 PM PST by Does so ( 🇺🇦...Military-aged "migrants" to be hired into Obama's "Civilian Army"? Biden NOT DNC nominee!)
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To: Mark17

Correct, it has no way to defend other than not be found.

If found, even a P-51 with .50 BMG rounds could turn it to confetti.


38 posted on 11/30/2023 5:12:28 PM PST by doorgunner69 (When tyranny becomes law, rebellion becomes duty)
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To: Macho MAGA Man

My home office faces our town’s airport and they have a P51 that is hangared there. It mostly goes to shows around the country for air shows. When it’s back home, take off and landings are impressive. It goes and you can really hear it coming and going.


39 posted on 11/30/2023 5:33:57 PM PST by Mean Daddy (Every time Hillary lies, a demon gets its wings. - Windflier)
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To: LittleBillyInfidel

I used to rent T-34B’s from the Monterey Navy Flying Club and meet some Cobra guys over Santa Cruz pier for fun and games in the late ‘80’s. Guns, guns,guns...


40 posted on 11/30/2023 5:55:02 PM PST by ebshumidors ( )
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