Posted on 03/11/2023 5:24:39 AM PST by karpov
When an Ivy League school breaks with its storied past by introducing a degree for nontraditional students, the relevance for other institutions of higher learning can’t be overlooked. In 2016, the University of Pennsylvania created such a program, leading to the B.A.A.S. (Bachelor of Applied Arts and Sciences).
The motivation for the change, according to Dean Steven Fluharty of the School of Arts & Sciences, was the recognition that working adults and other under-served students possessed valuable knowledge and skills that might be useful in a current or future career. All that was needed was the opportunity to demonstrate the connection to prospective employers.
One problem at Penn was that programs that deviate from tradition at elite schools tend to face uphill battles. To name just one example, the graduate department of journalism at UCLA was disbanded in the late 1960s when newly-appointed executive vice-chancellor David Saxon ruled it non-academic. (I received my M.S. from the department in ’64.) Saxon succeeded even though Cal-Berkeley and USC offered the same course of study leading to a master’s degree. It is difficult to imagine that similar voices were not heard when an Ivy League school introduced an online program.
One argument against online programs geared to the immediate marketplace is that they lower standards. That hasn’t been the case at Penn. In fact, the program’s senior portfolio, containing eight artifacts that are required for the degree, demands a level of rigor on par with any master’s thesis. Among these artifacts are videos linking student work to real issues in the workplace.
Since portfolio assessment is known for its highly subjective evaluation criteria, the program’s rigor had to be proved at the outset if the new degree was to be viable.
(Excerpt) Read more at jamesgmartin.center ...
When I went back to college after getting married to finish up my degree, I was considered a non-traditional student, and boy, they could not do enough for me.
They loves us non-traditional students because we worked hard, got good grades, showed up for class, and overall made the college and profs look good.
It was kind of nice.
This is about gatekeeping. These indoctrination centers want to be the arbitrators of who can qualify for a job and charge the peasants for a license to work.
Horrible corrupt greedy petty tyrants with an obscene desire for power over others lives.
Elon Musk has changed hiring for ever..it is what you can do…not what college you went to…
I graduated from FSU with a BSEE. The vast majority of courses I took were irrelevant to my work life. Everything I really needed was concentrated in a relative handful of courses and would have cost a fraction of the overall cost to learn. Everything I really needed I learned on the job. The college was trying to make each of us the equivalent of the well-rounded nineteenth century gentleman scientist like you read about in dusty biographies.
I’ve noticed two trends that will spell the end of colleges as we know them. A college degree is now considered by hiring managers to be useless. If you want to apply for a job as, say, a quality engineer you’ll need a certificate from a private organization like the American Society of Quality Engineers. Those don’t come cheap, but they guarantee you a spot on the interview cycle for that job. The same is true for other jobs like Program Manager. Why? Because colleges are handing out degrees to unqualified people because those people spent the money, not because they legitimately passed the courses. While interviewing an incredibly unqualified graduate from FAMU I went to see the professor who had given her an A in Circuits I. He was an adjunct working at our company. Yes, he remembered her. Yes, he gave her an A. He said, “If I don’t, they review me badly and I won’t be back teaching next semester.”
The other trend is that large companies are offering their own degrees from courses taught by their own employees. Thus, they are guaranteed that the people who finally pass are able to do the job the company wants them to do.
Frankly, I think the traditional colleges are well past their best-by. Goodbye, good riddance.
Exactly. I teach for the power generation industry and myself as well as most instructors I know are fed up with college grads.
The new grads all come out thinking they are enlightened but have no concept of how ignorant they are and what they need to know. I would rather work with a high school kids because they are easier to teach having not been filled with self inflating garbage.
I Have come across several engineers (4 yr BS not actually PE or other real certs mind you) who have not even mastered Algebra!
Other Ivy League colleges have extension schools.
I also found that non-trads participate more in class, read the assignments before the class not after if it all.
In general they are more motiivated and understand that they are there not just to get a piece of paper (diploma).
“I Have come across several engineers (4 yr BS not actually PE or other real certs mind you) who have not even mastered Algebra!”
How does that happen?
Indeed, how?
To be fair that level of egregiousness was from two universities and they both focused on a student populations dedicated to physical factors. Regardless they are both fully accredited colleges.
That's a correlation, not a causation, and that correlation is no longer true. Far better financial advice for most high school graduates is never start drinking alcohol or trying recreational drugs.
As it should always have been.
One incident early in my degree program, was when the teacher was explaining some concepts and asked if anyone had any questions. Nobody raised their hands and I’m sitting there thinking I’m the only one not getting it, feeling kind of stupid actually.
Then the thought hit me, the heck with this, I don’t get and and I am paying for this degree and not going to waste my money. So I raised my hand, asked the question, got the clarification and when he asked if there were any other questions, a couple other kids raised their hands as well.
I looked at them and thought, they don’t get it either!!!!!!! They were just too much cowards to raise their hands.
Well, it was a small class about 8-10 students, but that broke the ice and there was never any hesitation from the kids about asking questions again. All it took was one person willing to take the risk and ask, and it was like the floodgates were opened.
In a matter of weeks, everyone had relaxed to the point where not only were we asking questions and having good discussions, but felt comfortable enough to heckle the prof some. He was a really good guy and could take it and everyone liked him, but still, you knew, deep down, you didn’t mess with the guy.
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