Posted on 12/03/2022 7:32:28 AM PST by karpov
In the debate over the causes of group differences in IQ, it is often claimed that no serious scientist believes genes play a significant role. The only people who believe this, it is said, are assorted cranks and amateurs.
We can quickly dispense with this claim by consulting the various expert surveys that have been conducted over the years. Both Sean Last and Emil Kirkegaard have covered these before, but for several reasons I thought I do my own write-up: to correct a minor error in Sean’s post; to add results from the most recent study; and to present a summary chart showing all the results.
One of the earliest expert surveys was carried out by Friedrichs (1973). He asked members of the American Psychological Association to what extent they agreed with the following statement:
Arthur Jensen’s article, “How Much Can We Boost IQ and Scholastic Achievement?” in the Spring, 1969, HARVARD EDUCATIONAL REVIEW states that “it (is) a not unreasonable hypothesis that genetic factors are strongly implicated in the average Negro-white intelligence difference. The preponderance of the evidence is, in my opinion, less consistent with a strictly environmental hypothesis than with a genetic hypothesis”
Overall, 28% said “agree” or “tend to agree”, whereas 60% said “disagree or tend to disagree”. So a sizeable majority disagreed with the “Jensen thesis”, but a non-trivial fraction agreed. (Sean accidentally gave the percentage who “tend to agree” as 28%, rather than 18%. As a result, his percentages summed to more than 100.) The response rate was 65% and the number of respondents was 341.
The next major expert survey was carried out by Snyderman and Rothman (1987). They asked members of various professional societies, including the American Psychological Association and the Behavior Genetics Association, about the sources of the black-white IQ gap.
(Excerpt) Read more at noahcarl.substack.com ...
IQ measurement is crap. Absolutely not predictor of success in life.
Yes, some groups of people are more intelligent than others. Some of that is hereditary. Like in dogs.
We don’t bred like dogs. (most of us don’t)
The Eugenics crowd need to crawl back under their rock.
But, the leftist dogma in the United States is all races have exactly the same potential in exactly the same ways.
Once that thesis is shown to be false, the assumption that all differences in statistical outcomes between races is the result of racism, falls apart.
Then the idea of "racism to correct racism" is shown to be real, obvious racism, and the entire power grab based on supposed structural racism is discredited.
When I read stories about bizarre out of control social behavior, they do seem to have a common thread when it comes to race. There are certainly other factors such as neighborhood and family influences but, the stories just keep coming.
So? What is your point?
IQ measurement is a pretty good predictor of a lot of things, such as criminal behavior.
Lots of people with high measured IQ make stupid life decisions.
But people with highly measured IQ, as a group, tend to do better than people with low measured IQ, statistically.
That's not what it's supposed to measure.
“IQ measurement is crap. Absolutely not predictor of success in life.”
I’d like to know the scientific basis for that statement Avoiding the pitfall of racial differences for a moment, examine the performance of Jews who have about a 10 point advantage in IQ above average whites(100). There is no doubt their collective performance in all fields including science, medicine and law far exceeds there very low percentage of the population. The same is true of East Asians.
To adequately complete a college degree one needs at least an IQ of 85; some say 100. It is pointless to encourage a college education for everyone. The average IQ of African Americans is 85.
Except in basketball and football.
What do you do for a living? Are you a teacher? Or a psychiatrist? Or a psychologist?
My point? I’ve seen people with incredibly high IQ scores who did not have a lick of common sense.
I have a Business Degree and very high grades. That was over 50 years ago.
I spend 40 years in the wholesale distribution business. I have a lot more faith in people who do things than those who talk about doing things.
You got my point. The testing itself is not a valid indicator of what skills a person has and how he handles decision making.
I had a son-in-law who had a very high IQ and was a Harvard Law Graduate. His memory was incredible, but his view of what I consider reality was not there.
Anecdotes are for entertainment, not enlightenment.
“entertainment” smile.
Never saw the phrase you gave before. And I am not young, will turn 75 before the year is ended.
I’ve know a lot of very interesting people in my life. Many technical, many others that were in business, many others who worked hard for a living and actually accomplished a lot. Many more that had an extreme independence streak.
Growing up and living in Texas is not like most other places.
Some of the things I’ve observed and experienced were so unusual that if I told you the details about them you would call me a liar. (I’ve been accused of that before) But it would all be true.
A lot of people live their lives and cannot see what is happening around them. Situation awareness, if you want to call it that. But in reality, life is like looking at a mosaic painting (or tile). Up close it is not impressive, but viewed from a distance the picture is very clear.
The more points of view of an object gives each new glimpse more clarity.
“The Eugenics crowd need to crawl back under their rock.”
I did not say anything about the government coercing people to have or not have children, and neither did the linked article.
Eugenics is not just about abortions and sterilizations.
Eugenics pretends to study race and apply judgement upon that. And they advocated sterilization and abortions to control the number of “defective” humans.
Eugenics is a disease of the very wealthy. They do not think religion is real. So they substitute their own “brilliance” for that.
Bill Gates is a modern example of that. He is living and breathing for saving the world by reducing the human population. Insanity!
Why do you think he wants everybody to get the Jab?
His kind are the most miserable vermin alive.
Interesting.
Elementary Ed only requires a pulse and a loan/grant.
The intelligence quotient measures your ability to learn, not what you know. It also doesn’t measure contentiousness and moral reasoning, although they are related.
IQ does matter, but it is not the only measure of a person, nor is it entirely determinative of life outcomes. However, there is a considerable population of people in the US prison system who suffer to some degree from mental retardation. They typically have some speech disabilities and are incapable of long-term moral reasoning. This is why many prisons have turned to behavior modification programs and mental institutions use Token economies. The hope is that by teaching people about incentives, long term consequences, and the benefits of impulse control, they can become productive members of society.
The military uses IQ as a measurement of what type of job you are qualified for. I was a nuke. Nukes in the navy require high IQs. People with low IQs simply cannot do the processing required to work in the field. I’ve seen it. It is illegal for you to be in the US military with an ASVAB score less than 15. 15 corresponds with mental retardation.
The OAR (Officer Aptitude Rating Test) measures the minimum IQ requirement for someone to be an officer and a Pilot/Flight Officer.
As Jordan Peterson has said, if you don’t like IQ tests, you pretty much have to get rid of all of Psychology. It is the most accurate part of psychology and the methods used to develop it are the basis for all of the methods used elsewhere in psychology.
“If you treat people as individuals and do not try mandate equal results by group, the question of whether there are racial differences in IQ matters less.”
You’re not allowed to do that. You got to meet racial quotas, diversity quotas, equity standards, etc.
But let’s say you were allowed to treat people strictly on their merits, and let’s accept the reality that that there are differences in AVERAGE group IQ, and also that individuals can easily be identified as belong to a particular group.
Given that, which group is going to end up with the most menial jobs? which is going to have the poorest performing students? which is going to have the least success in life? Will it be the group with the lower or higher IQ?
I’m sure you would say the group with the lower IQ. And what will be the reaction of the vast majority of the people belonging to that group when they see such disparities? Do you think they’ll have some resentment? Do you think they might feel the system is unjust and rebel against it, especially when they keep getting told that all groups on AVERAGE are the same?
Isn’t that exactly what we’re seeing day in and day out everywhere in the world where such group IQ differences exist?
Given those realities, I have come to the following conclusion...
TWO GROUPS OF PEOPLE WHO ARE EASILY IDENTIFIABLE AS BELONGING TO ONE OR THE OTHER GROUP AND WHOSE AVERAGE GROUP IQ DIFFERS SIGNIFICANTLY, WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO PEACEFULLY COEXIST TOGETHER.
Do you agree? If so, what would be your solution to our race dystopia?
“IQ measurement is crap. Absolutely not predictor of success in life.”
That is pure BS. Yes there are other personality traits that contribute to one’s success, but with everything else being equal, higher IQ people on average will most surely do better in life than the lower ones.
” We don’t bred like dogs. (most of us don’t)
The Eugenics crowd need to crawl back under their rock.”
No, most of us don’t randomly breed like dogs, though a lot in the ‘hood certainly do.
Most of us do eugenics at a personal level - we’re very selective in whom we marry and pro-create with. We carefully examine many traits of potential mates, and pick the one that we think is the best - which is the essence of eugenics.
So at a personal level most of us, including you, are eugenicists. I bet you didn’t know that. Well, welcome to the eugenics club!
And it’s a good thing for our species, too.
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