Posted on 04/16/2022 8:43:36 AM PDT by fugazi
While we cannot say with total certainty whether the Russian cruiser Moskva was sunk due to a Ukrainian anti-ship missile or just a fire that crews were unable to control, we know that it is lost. Soon we will find out what happened, but regardless of if it was an unfortunate series of events or enemy action, what we do know is the Russian navy is about as big of a joke as the Bad News Bears baseball team from the 1970s movie.
The Russians have admitted that the flagship of their Black Sea Fleet — the ship that was famously told to “go f–k yourselves” by a small Ukrainians force on Snake Island — has sunk, but attribute the loss to a fire that caused munitions to explode. While you can trust virtually nothing the Russians say, the Ukrainians are not above using propaganda, and fog of war is always a factor, so we will just have to wait for the facts to come out. But the Russians have egg on their face regardless of whether the ship was lost due to enemy action or not.
If it was in fact a Ukrainian missile then it evaded multiple layers of defensive systems that should have protected the ship. Open-source intelligence indicates that a Turkish-produced drone may have distracted the crew, but are Russian radars and their operators so bad that they can somehow only process one potential threat?
On the other hand, if the loss was solely due to fire then that calls into question the competency of the ship’s crew. Fire is a serious threat to all ships at sea, and a cruiser would certainly have plenty of munitions on board that could
(Excerpt) Read more at untothebreach.net ...
Either way, it’s a good thing the ship is gone.
“one potential threat?”
Coordinated attack using multiple drones and missiles.
consistent with a successful Ukrainian strike than a pure accident.
;>)
It always has been.
If it WAS an out-of-control fire, they have nobody to blame or seek vengeance upon.
If it WAS a Ukey Neptune, then The Russ WILL claim a Legitimate Bitch, and seek payback.
They sort of have to pick one, first. Either choice has some downside.
That sounds more plausible than a drone somehow diverting all the attention while a missile goes unnoticed. But there is also ample evidence of Russian systems failing for a variety of reasons and leading to disaster, so it will be interesting to see what turns up.
We really should have allowed Ukranian men to enlist in our infantry. Station them in NATO. Then when these wars come up they can return to Ukraine as trained fighting citizens. It’s not too late for former eastern bloc countries. Would they volunteer? Good question. Dangle American citizenship in front of them.
Hindsight is always 20-20.
I wonder how much time they had from Detection of incoming (assuming it WAS detected) and the BOOM!
Maybe their ossified command chain and permissions process isn’t fast enough.
Russia’s military looks like a relic from many decades ago.
Russia’s strategy looks inept as exemplified by the Sitting Duck Tank Convoy.
Russia is sending a signal to China that Russian land can easily be taken by China.
That kind of stuff the Russians keep to themselves. Russian citizens are kept in the dark and the families of the fallen probably will never find out what happened to their boys.
I feel sorry for them, really. Not the war criminals and psychopaths, but the Russians who were swept into service and forced to fight. They don’t want to be in that war any more than we do, but they didn’t get a choice. A third possibility, however unlikely it seems at this point, is that the ship’s loss was due to sabotage.
This is a terrible slight on the “Bad News Bears”.
And at the precise time when the pattern of the Moskva's movements, clearly established, with the unusual weather, gave the attackers maximum advantage.
An advantage seldom mentioned is the Ukrainians both built the Moskva and refurbished the ship. They know it down to the last bolt, and its vulnerabilities.
Reportedly, its main air defense radar is only capable of 180 degrees of coverage.
I have never been in the Navy, but have toured a few museum ships. I didn’t see much that would burn. I understand fuel and munitions could catch fire and be a huge problem, but most other areas seemed like it would be like a fire in a metal barrel; mostly contained in something non-flammable. I’m not arguing that it wasn’t a fire. I just don’t understand how a modern steel ship can catch fire and burn out of control (other than the mentioned fuel and munitions). Can someone educate me?
Once China no longer has a use for Russia they will take what they want. Once people figure out how to obtain resources from Siberia I imagine there won’t even be much of a fight. Not conventional at least.
Russia currently has economic leverage given its oil production, but if the West started to produce its own energy, Russia would be substantially weakened. Also, the West doesn’t want to fight, and Putin goes as far as we let him. But that hand plays out at some point, then he will have to depend on a force of conscripts and weapons systems that have proven themselves incapable of much more than destroying defenseless civilian areas.
Mind you, there's nothing at all wrong with Russian troops and sailors when they've given proper attention to training and leadership. They're smart, dedicated, and legendarily brave under adversity. But if everything that is there to support the spear's point has been looted or neglected and it has been allowed to rust, you get what you earn. We shouldn't imagine that the rules don't apply to us:
To be fair, disastrous leadership, political correctness, social engineering, and vaccine mandates have weakened us as well.
We have training hours that should be spent on equipment maintenance and employment redirected to earnest discussions of whether men can have periods, a procurement system that is rife with pork and graft, and a deliberate and knowing degradation of physical and mental standards that once were considered untouchable. We have political figures entrusted with secret information using it for personal enrichment and as trading tokens in international politics. And we have a current administration that thinks it's just fine to break negotiated agreements, get the first 13 people killed in country in 20 months, and abandon billions in equipment and thousands of people, all for the purpose of self-aggrandizement and media posing. Nothing happened to those responsible, nothing changed in order to prevent it from recurring.
Couldn’t agree more. I could have gone in depth on how big of a threat we are to ourselves but the article would have turned into a small book.
I wonder how much time they had
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30-35 seconds
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