[BobL]

I always look back to the Cold War for insight into Russian thinking. If I remember correctly, the Russians actually did pull out of Austria under the condition that Austria remain neutral, which they did. They also left Finland alone after WW2 (but held on to a chunk of their territory) as long as Finland remained neutral, which they also did. Even so, both countries prospered as Western democracies.

At this point Russia is basically asking the same of Ukraine, be neutral. Of course if they agree, Russia could attack in the future...but then again, they left Austria and Finland alone in a similar situation...

[Bruce Campbells Chin]

In the 1994 Budapest Memorandum of Security Assurances, signed by Russia, Ukraine, the U.S., and the U.K., Ukraine agreed to turnover of of the nuclear weapons in its territory in exchange for promises from the other signatories that they would:

"respect the independence and sovereignty and existing borders.of Ukraine."

Russia signed that, crapped all over it anyway with the 2p14 invasion of Crimea, and tore it to shreds with this invasion. Any Russian promise to not invade Ukraine or any other place in the future isn't worth the paper it is printed on. This Russians themselves proved that conclusive.

What Russia has done is illustrate perfectly why Ukraine is completely justified in wanting membership in NATO. Because absent that, they are sitting ducks.

[woodbutcher1963]

The Russians got the butt kicked by Finland in the late 1930’s.
It was a serious A$$ kicking.

Please look up the war of 1939 when Russia invaded Finland.

There is a story of the Hero’s of Finland about a sniper that killed over 500 Russians.