AND ANOTHER ONE DEAD: Deportivo Marquense star dies after suffering heart attack in training

DEPLORABLE Bloggers Alliance ^ | 5 January 2022 | Pastorius

[SeekAndFind]

RE: So there we have it - the anatomy of an anti-vax claim.

I personally never said that the vaccines were the cause of the deaths. I said it has been observed that in 2021, there have been out of the average number of athletes collapsing compared to previous years.

Whether it is caused by the vaccines or not, we do not yet know. This most recent death in fact, does not mention vaccination at all.

So, don’t get the impression that I said these were caused by vaccines. I didn’t.

[SeekAndFind]

RE: The following is an incomplete list of association footballers who died while playing...

Yes, the Wiki list is incomplete. I am also open to the possibility that there could be more before 2021 than what was documented in the Wiki table.

However, their names are mentioned and the circumstances described.

So based on that table, we get the 5x above average figure.

Do you have a better source that show us that this number fir 2021 isn’t unusual and is to be normally expected for FIFA?

[semimojo]

I personally never said that the vaccines were the cause of the deaths

I know, and I never implied that you did.

You left out the passive "it has been observed" part, but yes, you said that.

And when I looked at your source it has screaming, flashing red light danger signals and produces no data to back up it's claims.

I've seen no data indicating a higher rate of sudden cardiac death in 2021 and your offered link certainly doesn't provide any.

[semimojo]

So based on that table, we get the 5x above average figure.

No, we get it based on that incomplete table plus a count of deaths in 2021 that as far as I can tell was plucked out of thin air.

And from that you make the unambiguous fact claim that "it has occurred at FIVE TIMES the frequency beyond the average of the past two decades."

To repeat, all they have is an admittedly incomplete Wiki table and a number they made up, or at least refuse to say where they got it, and based on that they make an extraordinary claim.

Do you have a better source that show us that this number fir 2021 isn’t unusual and is to be normally expected for FIFA?

Nice try, but it doesn't work that way.

When you make an extraordinary claim like you did the burden is on you to provide some evidence.

Forget the 5X, show me the 2021 cardiac death rate is above normal at all.

And I hope you would admit that RealNews blog piece isn't evidence anyone should rely on.

[LilFarmer]

*

[SeekAndFind]

RE: I've seen no data indicating a higher rate of sudden cardiac death in 2021 and your offered link certainly doesn't provide any.

This Wikipedia link has a table that Names all the past incidences of KNOWN athlete collapse in FIFA. Based on this, an Israeli writer created this chart



Now, I understand that Wikipedia states that the table is an incomplete list, which to me means that this is based only on what is KNOWN and DOCUMENTED.

In fact, there is no other year since 2001 where the difference between the number of observed cases of SCD/SUD and the expected number is statistically significant.

I am open to the possibility that what is observed in 2021 is actually the norm. But since we do not have any other data, that's all we can base the numbers on.

And again, we STILL do not know if this is vaccine related, but I think the numbers in 2021 are high enough to find out( and note: this list is only for SOCCER and does not include other sports. ).

[LilFarmer]

Sudden cardiac death in the soccer field: a retrospective study in young soccer players from 2000 to 2013

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25419885/

54 deaths in 13 years.

[mewzilla]

And Christian Ericksen now needs a defibrillator...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-10372283/Christian-Eriksen-insists-not-afraid-slightest-having-cardiac-arrest.html

[semimojo]

Based on this, an Israeli writer created this chart...

And where did that Israeli writer get his data on deaths in 2021???

The article says: "we used the list of players who died during 2021, collected in the "Real Time News" research"

They provide no link nor reference to any data source.

What research?

Where did this data come from?

This isn't data, this is a claim from a website with a clear agenda.

Yet you repeat it as fact.

I know you like to put everything out there and let people decide for themselves what to believe but once you weigh in with a statement like you made I think you have some responsibility to back it up.

So tell me, how many sudden cardiac deaths were there in 2021 and what's the source for that data?

[SeekAndFind]

RE: And where did that Israeli writer get his data on deaths in 2021?

The table in Wikipedia, which gives the names of the athletes and the circumstances behind their collapse.

As I said, I understand that Wikipedia gives the caveat that this list is partial, yet, it is documented.

Absent any new information about past cases or revision of 2021 data, that’s where we have to base our data on.

What’s your problem with the Wiki table? Other than their caveat, which we both acknowledge?

[semimojo]

I am open to the possibility that what is observed in 2021 is actually the norm. But since we do not have any other data, that's all we can base the numbers on.

Fair enough, let's base it on the numbers we have.

Here's a pretty definitive source - FIFA:

"Reuters presented the claims to FIFA, world soccer’s governing body, which reaffirmed its statement to Reuters in November: “FIFA is not aware of a rise in episodes of cardiac arrests as indicated in your email and no cases have been flagged in relation to individuals receiving a COVID vaccine.

“Generally speaking, FIFA is in regular contact with leading research centres and experts to do research on a variety of medical topics.”"

I know it's a hated and dreaded fact check article but this is a quote from FIFA itself.

You may want to read the rest of that article as well because it offers a little more on RealNews.

So the numbers we have say there isn't an increase in cardiac deaths among FIFA players. Does that make you rethink your 5X claim?

[SeekAndFind]

RE: 54 deaths in 13 years.

Which averages to 4.2 deaths per year the past 13 years.

There were 21 deaths recorded in 2021.
Which comes to 5x the average.

[Scarlett156]

Um, and they’re ok with that? It says he want to go back to playing? Eh, what?

[KamperKen]

"You don’t hear stories about the shot affecting women.

Here's one for you, a 29 year old Korean actress who just happened to drop dead;

https://nypost.com/2022/01/05/korean-snowdrop-actor-kim-mi-soo-dies-suddenly-at-29/

[nascarnation]

Same thing I've noticed.

Are these guys getting the ChiCom Sinovax?

[semimojo]

The table in Wikipedia, which gives the names of the athletes and the circumstances behind their collapse.

That table shows 9 that are in some way heart-related.

That's less than half what the author is reporting.

As I said, I understand that Wikipedia gives the caveat that this list is partial, yet, it is documented.

So if I point to a list of 3 players who died of cardiac issues in 2021 I can say, "yeah, the list's incomplete but it's what we have. It shows only 3 deaths for the year which is lower than average"?

[SeekAndFind]

Did you look at the Wikipedia page I sent you?

It lists 22 ( including January this year ) soccer athletes who collapsed in 2021, including their names and conditions.

I still want documentation of the names of KNOWN collapses the past 20 years other than the ones listed in that table. How hard is it to review the past cases?

Otherwise, I have no choice but to stand by what I said, provisionally.

[semimojo]

It lists 22 ( including January this year ) soccer athletes who collapsed in 2021, including their names and conditions.

And fewer than half of the ones in 2021 listed anything cardiac related as the cause.

And that's still less than half of the sudden cardiac deaths claimed by the author.

I still want documentation of the names of KNOWN collapses the past 20 years other than the ones listed in that table.

Yeah, that would be nice.

How hard is it to review the past cases?

Easy if we have the data, which neither of us do.

Yet you're making definitive claims about things you admit you don't have the data to back up.

I have no choice but to stand by what I said, provisionally.

Meaning you're not standing behind it at all.

Wise choice.

[LilFarmer]

I have nearly 150 deaths - I am still working on updating my list.

[SeekAndFind]

Are these deaths all soccer related?

Are they deaths due to heart conditions?

We don’t want to include deaths due to sports injuries.