Posted on 07/09/2021 5:44:20 AM PDT by Starman417
Last week Dan Bongino talked about the pointlessness of arguing with the left. He said something like “We think the left are simply people with bad ideas while the left thinks we are simply bad people…” He went on to say that while pointless in terms of trying to convince the person with whom you’re “arguing”, it’s worthwhile because others, who may be open minded and paying attention, might be persuaded.
This was driven home to me via a Facebook discussion that started out with a friend’s cartoon suggesting CRT is an innocuous addition to the teaching of American history that shows some of the darker chapters.
My response was: “No one opposes teaching history, warts and all. I studied slavery, Jim Crow, the Trail of Tears, Chinese workers basically in servitude to build the RR and more. You keep mischaracterizing CRT as just teaching the negative side of American history. It’s not. The heart of CRT is that the US is systematically racist and minorities can’t succeed. That’s fiction and you know it.”
Which started a firestorm from a friend of my friend, from which I’ve excerpted:
It’s apparent that you gained little insight from your studies. If they didn’t touch on the racist systems that led to those events occurring, you obviously got the sanitized, white washed version where the savagery and downright inhumanity to any non-white man BY white men was totally excluded. Just like your fellow GOP white Supremacists, there is NO reality that y’all can’t bend to save your false sense of identity that you’re superior to all non- whites and European genius and goodness is the only reality there is.
American Slavery was different and worse than any other slavery in the History of the World. It’s the only slavery where the slaves were dehumanized. No other slavery treated the slaves like a horse or a chicken.
To which I responded:
It’s true slaves were treated as property, but in fact, slaves in the American south were largely treated better than slaves in South America and the. One major reason for that was the Constitution’s ban on the importation of slaves after 1808. Slaves therefore became far more valuable than they were in the rest of the Americas and it was to nobody’s benefit to work them to death. That is, very unlike Brazil, the Caribbean and elsewhere where slaves were cheaply imported and therefore expendable. The truth of this can be seen in the fact that 94% of the slaves brought to the New World went somewhere other than the United States, but by 1860 2/3 of the slaves in the New World were in the American south.
He continued: The effects are still being felt today when George Floyd’s murderer gets 22.5 years for killing a black human being but a black man killing a Police DOG recently was sentenced to 45 years. That just shows that the dehumanization of black folks specifically males is baked in to American society. The ONLY ones who are treated like human beings are the exceptional negroes who make it through systemic racism baked into every institution in America or those who entertain white folks in music, TV or sports. And even they can’t say anything bad about America or their lives could get turned upside down.
Wouldn’t it be nice if American Europeans tried to dismantle this system and rectify the damage? The boost to our economy through reparations alone and the good will gained worldwide as America denounces its past and pledges to make amends would truly place this nation at the top as it stones for its sins. But, white America collectively isn’t interested in any of that. It’s only interested in the maintenance of white supremacy for various reasons, not the least of which is white genetic survival, power and greed.
After more futile back and forth, I decided to take a different tact:
Let’s try a thought experiment... Imagine everything you said is true about programs being stacked against minorities. What do you do to fix them? Reverse discrimination? How about reparations? Who pays? Who gets what? Who decides? Does Obama pay or does he get money? Do recent African or Caribbean immigrants get money too or only people who can trace their lineage back to slavery or even Jim Crow? What about black families who owned slaves? Do the million or so black millionaires get money too? When are things as they should be? What's the measure? Will every company or classroom or board have to reflect the pigment hue of the country as a whole? Will it apply to everything from police to janitors to ditch diggers to the NBA and the NFL? Will all of this change the unwed birth rate in black America? Is murder still to be considered a crime as half of the offenders in the US are black males despite the fact that they make up only 6% of the population? Since reparations will make everything even do we do away with welfare programs that disproportionately benefit minorities?
Or, maybe all of us could be grateful for the fact that today virtually every one of us is extraordinarily lucky to live in a country that allows so much freedom and opportunity that millions of people literally risk their lives to come here every year and probably half or more of the rest of the world would happily change places with almost any American.
(Excerpt) Read more at floppingaces.net...
True believers are immune to rational discourse. May as well argue with your horse to try to get it to turn right. Progressives believe that they hold the key to the perfectibility of mankind, and that Their “work is not done”until they get there. Even if it means destroying civilization in the process.
Talking to the left usually just gets you called vile things.
No, you cannot argue or reason with the Left. Nor can normal Americans live with them in the same society. They want you dead. KTF
You can’t reason with someone who didn’t use reason to arrive at their position in the first place.
“...American Slavery was different and worse than any other slavery in the History of the World. It’s the only slavery where the slaves were dehumanized. No other slavery treated the slaves like a horse or a chicken...”
Anyone with even a ‘bare-bones’ grasp of historic fact, can make that statement.
Never accept the left’s (Marxist) premise on anything.
Arguing with a Leftist is usually futile. You are unlikely to change what passes for their minds. That said, you might convince an onlooker.
If we have learned anything from Bill Buckley through Rush Limbaugh right on up to Ben Shapiro and Steven Crowder, it’s that you had better want to win as badly as the Leftist wants to win. Again, you won’t change their minds, but making them look foolish erodes their position. Be mean. Make them look stupid. Above all else, don’t accept their premises.
The ‘conversation’ ends before it can even be CALLED s conversation.
Liberals actually believe if they interrupt you and shout you down.... they are right ... and you are not!
I avoid arguing with Leftists, one, becasue it is a waste of time, and two, I avoid Leftists completely at all costs.
Life is much more pleasant without any Leftists in my life.
The “true believers” should bequeath all they own to blacks and then immediately and unceremoniously, kill themselves.
The slavery debt in the United States, has been paid in full for many years. Here is a partial list of the payments. The ante bellum abolitionist movement, coupled with the Underground Railroad. The carnage of the Civil War. The Thirteenth, Fourteenth, Fifteenth, Nineteenth, and Twenty-fourth Amendments to the United States Constitution. The Constitution of the United States has been amended five times as reparation for the evil of slavery. That is almost 30% of the seventeen amendments added since the original ten. The Civil Rights Act of 1964 (Pub.L. 88–352, 78 Stat. 241, enacted July 2, 1964.) All these actions or laws were designed and executed by decent human beings to abolish the inhumanity inflicted on fellow humans. These actions are designed to ensure no human being in the United States will ever have to suffer such tribulation again. Slavery, abolished 156 years ago, has nothing to do with the so called “racism” that is currently in vogue. Admittedly there is senseless angst and hatred based on skin color. It continues because as human beings we allow it to continue. There is no logical reason “racism” should exist. It is an obsolete cultural relic. There is only one who is supreme. Put an end to diversity which groups people by insignificant labels. Replace diversity with teamwork, compassion, encouragement, understanding, and friendship. We are blessed in the United States, for all citizens have equal footing. Within the bounds of human decency everyone is free and encouraged to excel at their endeavors. In the end it is about character, all can decide their own destiny.
Or as my mom used to tell me, you can't rationalize with an irrational person.
I tend to take a different tack, since left-leaning friends start with a different set of axioms and work with different rules of logic than I do. I focus on the meaning and value of critical thinking skills, and ask which truths should be considered self-evident, and why. This wins arguments, but loses shallow-minded friends.
Never Wrestle With a Pig
If we’re not at that point already, we’re fast approaching it.
Arguing with leftists is futile because it is not an exchange of ideas. Liberals have memorize a script with preprogrammed answers. Liberals are telemarketers reading from a script. They’re brain dead zombies.
Life is too short to waste it on a lefty.
“An SDS radical once wrote, “The issue is never the issue. The issue is always the revolution.” In other words the cause - whether inner city blacks or women - is never the real cause, but only an occasion to advance the real cause which is the accumulation of power to make the revolution.”
― David Horowitz, Barack Obama's Rules for Revolution: The Alinsky Model
The reason why arguing with a Leftist is futile, is because, to him, the truth or falsity of his argument is irrelevant. It's just a tool to advance socialism.
“Arguing with liberals...it’s like playing chess with a pigeon; no matter how good I am at chess, the pigeon is just going to knock over the pieces, crap on the board and strut around like it’s victorious.” — Anonymous
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