Posted on 05/06/2021 2:45:38 PM PDT by MJacks4
Yes. However a similar but different saying need not have the same backstory.
“However a similar but different saying need not have the same backstory.”
The non-saying “Hell to pay” arose solely as a corruption of the saying “the devil to pay.”
The connection is similar to that of the corruption “tow the line” and the saying “toe the line.”
He’s right! But, that’s just part of the picture.
Immaterial.
Absolutely immaterial because what he said is absolutely, biblically correct of those finding themselves finally in Hell.
Now, if he was talking in terms of ships rather than him melding theology to politics? Your point would make sense to raise. But he wasn’t.
There is no magical significance to the odd terminology or phrase ... it is for example absolutely valid for mega nerds to speak of a Klingon version of Shakespeare ... because they are mega nerds.
In fact I think the absolute worst thing that happens to a few cultures is that they deem themselves the great culture of X or Y. Why? Well, for what I would say is the reason why Dracula, Dead and Loving It just didn’t work. It was like at some point someone had said to Mel Brooks “no worries, you’re Mel Brooks” and then he stated wondering “he’s right, what would Mel Brooks do in this movie?” Proverbially speaking people with the great culture have a similar problem, eventually they have to start aping what’s been done before because that’s the culture that is great.
Meanwhile people unburdened with the demands of The Great Culture can get on with their lives. Man, I love English ... a right proper mongrel language that even the English themselves couldn’t wrest from the English to turn it into the great language of culture.
Anyhoo...
So I don’t speak Klingon, never have, and I simply like my Shakespeare in English just as I like my Robin Hoods to at least have an English accent, which would mean a MODERN English accent, so ha-ha it was actually a good joke on several levels.
Mind you, I’m actually enough of a nerd to be aware that the first version of Klingon, Klingon v1.0 let’s call it, completely lacked the linguistic elements to say “to be or not to be” ... and that had to be added for the movie. Which is kinda funny given the dialog in the movie. But that doesn’t mean I’m gonna stand in the way of the even nerdier nerds reciting Hamlet in Klingon v1.5.
Bah.
You fail to understand the value of linguistic precision.
Do you speak any other languages? Perhaps putting 20 years or so into learning Japanese would give you more respect for English.
It is coming a lot sooner than they think.
Precision? Really?
Literal references to people in Hell is NOT speaking of a lower tier punishment, like with something sailors thought of as less than scourging, and it is the maritime reference is actually lacking in accuracy if it were applied in this circumstance. Also, as I pointed out, the Devil isn’t getting paid anything by others also in Hell.
You brought an entirely spurious point up.
Now, I’m all for asides and a better way for you to have started might have been as an aside saying that in normal circumstances what he said would be a corruption of a long recognized saying ... but you didn’t.
Now, in the name of precision — for I do value precision in theology, law and engineering (which in itself is sadly unusual considering how many engineers write) — I will offer this criticism of what Phil said for Hell is the Lord’s wrath and to be precise those who continue in sin, no matter their politics, will have the Lord to pay.
Please note, I do not think this wrath is necessarily punishment either, or a response to what the damned did, but rather a response to what the finally damned are. I reason based on a number of passages that Wrath is possibly remedial in nature, a restraining pressure to keep their fallen nature from ever expressing itself again. If that sounds an odd form of remedial response consider that keeping them from ever having sin again is an improvement compared to sin persisting, and therefore the works of the Devil persisting (and we are told that Christ came to destroy the works of the Devil). This notion, if accurate, might also allow Wrath to be applied in accordance to the strength of a specific sin nature, exacting to the individual rather than general towards all.
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