[Toddsterpatriot]

If a company is worth say $10/share based on revenue, profit, assets, and so forth,

Who makes that decision? The company? The analyst? You?

and you try to force the price down to $1 a share by making people think the company isn't worth $10 a share, what do you call it?

Force it? You think it's worth $10 "based on revenue, profit, assets, and so forth", I think, "based on FUTURE revenue, SHRINKING profit, DECLINING assets, and so forth" that it's worth $1. So I borrow some and sell it at $10.

are you buying those shares at way more than they're worth in order to try to jack the price up?

No. I'm buying them at the market price because I'm hoping the price goes up.

Buying them at market price because you think they're worth more than people are selling them for isn't manipulation.

But selling them short - at market price because I think they're worth less than people are selling them for is manipulation?

[Svartalfiar]

Who makes that decision? The company? The analyst? You?

No one. It's a hard number based on factual reality, and all those people make the best guess they can to get the most value out of their paper.


Force it? You think it's worth $10 "based on revenue, profit, assets, and so forth", I think, "based on FUTURE revenue, SHRINKING profit, DECLINING assets, and so forth" that it's worth $1. So I borrow some and sell it at $10.

Sure, on a small scale whatever, but the huge scales that many of these hedge funds and other companies do this, selling large numbers of stocks in order to drive the price down, not because they actually think it's worth less, is manipulation.


No. I'm buying them at the market price because I'm hoping the price goes up.

Then why would that be manipulation?


But selling them short - at market price because I think they're worth less than people are selling them for is manipulation?

Selling large amounts of stock, that you don't even actually own? First, selling 'borrowed' stocks is already a shady area, and many times these companies aren't doing this as a market gamble - they do this in large bulk that forces the price down (basically supply and demand), in order to make a profit, or force a buyout of the company. That certainly is manipulation.