Posted on 09/20/2020 5:37:41 AM PDT by USA Conservative
We've tried shaming the press, cancelling our subscriptions, going to alternatives. Didn't work. People trust used car salesmen more than they trust 'journalists'. The press doesn't care. Democrats AND Republicans think the press is biased against Republicans. They're not moved. It's nuts.
You're right - we have to do something...
The MSM is inflaming the country and there should be laws against that!!!
We have to honor freedom of the press... it’s protected by the Constitution AND it protects our speech too.
What we need to do is go over the incentives that have created this press horror ...and start there. There are things we can change.
KRS 218A.010 Definitions.
KRS 502.020 Liability for conduct of another -- Complicity.
- (10) "Distribute" means to deliver other than by administering or dispensing a controlled substance;
- (37) "Sell" means to dispose of a controlled substance to another person;
- (42) "Traffic," except as provided in KRS 218A.1431, means to manufacture, distribute, dispense, sell, transfer, or possess with intent to manufacture, distribute, dispense, or sell a controlled substance;
KRS 502.030 Liability for conduct of another --No defense.
- (1)A person is guilty of an offense committed by another person when, with the intention of promoting or facilitating the commission of the offense, she:
- (a)Solicits, commands, or engages in a conspiracy with such other person to commit the offense; or
- (b)Aids, counsels, or attempts to aid such person in planning or committing the offense; or
- (c)Having a legal duty to prevent the commission of the offense, fails to make a proper effort to do so.
- In any prosecution for an offense in which the criminal liability of the accused is based upon the conduct of another person pursuant to KRS 502.010 and 502.020, it is no defense that:
- (1)Such other person has not been prosecuted for or convicted of any offense based on the conduct in question, or has previously been acquitted thereof, or has been convicted of a different offense, or has an immunity to prosecution or conviction for such conduct; or
- (2)The offense in question, as defined, can be committed only by a particular class or classes of persons, and the accused, not belonging to such class or classes, is for that reason legally incapable of committing the offense in an individual capacity.
Much of what you are claiming is conjecture, or disputed."
I make no claims, none. What was set forth was completely linked to either documented evidence or testimony. You don't like what those links deliver in the way of evidence and testimony, that's your problem.
You OTOH have reeled off another long list of random non-sequiturs that read like someone mumbling to themselves in a bar. You offer no cites, no links, no proof to any of your opinions.
Let me show you exactly how it's done, son.
After Walker lied and tried to pin shooting Officer Mattingly on Saint Breonna, he then said he fired because he thought it was Saint Breonna's ex-boyfriend THE CONVICTED DRUG DEALER.
"Ms. Taylor had been focused on her future with Mr. Walker. But her history with 30-year-old Jamarcus Glover, an on-again off-again boyfriend who had spent years in prison, was hard to escape, even after she cut ties with him a month before the raid. When the officers rammed the door of the apartment, Mr. Walker later explained, he fired his gun because he feared it was her ex-boyfriend forcing his way in.Although Ms. Taylor had no criminal record and was never the target of an inquiry, Mr. Glover’s frequent run-ins with the police entangled her. She had been interviewed in a murder inquiry, and paid or arranged bail for him and his associates.
When Mr. Glover called from jail after an earlier arrest in January, she told him that his brushes with the law worried her, according to a recording; each said “I love you” before hanging up. A GPS tracker the police placed on his car later showed him making regular trips to her apartment complex, and surveillance photos showed her outside a drug house.
In a series of calls hours after her death, as Mr. Glover tried to make bail, he told another woman that he had left about $14,000 with Ms. Taylor. “Bre been having all my money,” he claimed. The same afternoon, he also told an associate he had left money at Ms. Taylor’s home."
See that right there? First, a link. A link to a verified source. Then a short excerpt for Fair Use.
Walker switched to the ex-boyfriend lie after he lied that Taylor did the shooting. That's not conjecture, that is a fact elucidated from the documented sources.
The moment Walker lied about Saint Bre doing the shooting, his credibility -- if he had any to begin with -- was gone. This is not conjecture, not opinion. Walker would have been roasted and impeached in cross-examination, and that is precisely why Wine charged Walker with attempted murder of a police officer immediately.
Even the CONVICTED DRUG DEALER knows Walker is to blame for Breonna Taylor's death, which puts him one up on you L.O.F.L.
"But the recordings and other evidence reviewed by The Courier Journal show Taylor and Glover maintained closer ties.On Jan. 3, for example, following Glover’s arrest on trafficking and weapons charges, he called Taylor from the jail and asked her to contact one of his co-defendants to get bail money.
Taylor responded that the associate was “already at the trap” — slang for a house used for drug trafficking.
Glover told her to be on standby to pick him up if he made bail. “I'm going to get me some rest in your bed,” he said, according to the recording.
“Love you,” he said, at the end of the call.
“Love you, too,” she replied.
(Glover) blamed Kenneth Walker for Taylor’s death.
"At the end of the day it was not my fault. … At the end of the day, if I would have been at that house Bre would be alive, bruh. … I don’t shoot at no police.”
So in your next rambling reply, offer us just a fraction of the same legwork as I have. Back it up with facts, a citation, a link, an excerpt. Just one. Just one single time.
The idea that Walker and Taylor thought it was a home invasion is bullshit -- what kind of home invasion knocks repeatedly;
Marktwain replied:
Home invaders knocking repeatedly is common. Lots of times they are on drugs. They often think demons are chasing them. They often hope to get the people inside to open the door. Sometimes they are people with a grudge. Sometimes they look around to find something to break down the door with. Sometimes they use a decoy. Sometimes they are at the wrong address.
From StAnDeliver's post:
"There was probably six or seven different contacts of multiple banging on the doors and after that each one of them had, 'Police! Come to the door.
From the audio testimony of Sgt. Mattingly, the banging lasted between 45 seconds and a minute, total.
The link to the audio was graciously provided by StAnDeliver.
StAnDeliver replied:
I make no claims, none. What was set forth was completely linked to either documented evidence or testimony. You don't like what those links deliver in the way of evidence and testimony, that's your problem.
Then StAnDeliver asked for links:
So in your next rambling reply, offer us just a fraction of the same legwork as I have. Back it up with facts, a citation, a link, an excerpt. Just one. Just one single time.
Here are the links, collaborating my assertion that home invaders often repeatedly bang on doors. It took people in the home some time to respond, showing the banging was not a simple one time occurrence.
Here is a home invasion where the perps knocked for about a minute.
Here is another case where the suspect was banging on the door, then eventually got shot, trying to force his way in.
Here is another "heard loud banging at his back door" before the perp was shot.
This one was "banging on the doors and windows at her residence" before being shot.
Here is another one, this guy appears to have been drunk, banging on the door, demanding to be let in.
Here is another, where the perp was banging on the front door, eventually broke the side window, and was shot inside. Further investigation and a conversation with the homeowner provided more detail about the incident which apparently began when he heard loud banging at his front door. The homeowner said the suspect broke the glass next to the front door and reached to unlock it before making entry. Police said that as Jackson made his way up the stairs, the homeowner grabbed a rifle and shot several times in the alleged robber's general direction.
Here is another, where a grandmother shot a home invader who was banging, banging, banging
"First I thought I was dreaming and then I looked out the window, outside. I was still hearing the banging, banging, banging, so I yelled to whoever, 'Who's that on my door? Get off my door, get off my door,'" Thompson explained.
Here is a home invasion where the homeowner was awakened by a loud banging on the door. A man, who along with his wife and young child, were awakened at 4:55 a.m. by a loud banging at the front door. The homeowner grabbed his 9 mm handgun and went to investigate.
All of this shows StAnDeliver's assertion that Breonna and Walker could not have believed the people banging on their door were home invaders, because home invaders do not bang on doors, repeatedly, (45 seconds to a minute) is not correct.
It is an assertion about someone else's state of mind, which is always difficult to know.
StAnDeliver, I have fulfilled your request for links.
Whether Breonna Taylor and Kenneth Walker could have plausibly thought the people banging on the door were a home invader or invaders is the crux of the case.
All the attacks on Breonna's possible drug connection are character attacks. They show reasons for the issuance of a warrant.
They also show she may have had reason to fear a home invasion.
Even her drug dealer former boyfriend said "he would never shoot at police", as StAnDeliver showed us.
That reinforces the testimony of Kenneth Walker, who did shoot at the police, (wounding Sgt Mattingly) saying he would never have shot at them if he knew they were police.
StAnDeliver says that is a lie, because Kenneth Walker lied to the police, immediately after the shooting, when asked who fired the shot at Sgt Mattingly. Again, from wlky.com: Another bit Wine wanted to clear up was why Taylor was ever considered a suspect. He said that happened because immediately following the shooting, police asked Walker who shot at them and he said it was Taylor.
Reasonable people can differ. Lots of people lie under stress. Police have been known to lie as well.
The idea that Breonna and Walker thought it was a home invasion, at about 1 am, is plausible from the accounts I have read and the links StAnDeliver has so graciously provided.
StAnDeliver, I appreciate your hard work in uncovering many facts about this case that have not been widely disseminated, especially the link to the audio testimony published by WLKY.
Good work. Those need to be more widely known. They illuminate what happened, and to me, make the police actions more understandable.
Quite a few reforms have been put in place to prevent this sort of tragedy in the future.
StAnDeliver, you claimed I might not like the facts of the case.
I like facts. The more the better. Do you dislike the fact that home invasions occur, and are often preceded by considerable banging?
LMPD confirmed three officers -- Jon Mattingly, Myles Cosgrove and Hankison -- fired their weapons that night. Mattingly was struck in the leg and returned fire. He has recovered. Cosgrove fired his weapon inside the apartment. All three officers were placed on adminstrative reassignment. The sources said they do not believe Taylor was struck by any of the bullets fired by Hankison from outside.
Triple facepalm.
No. A random assemblage of home invasion stories does not help here in the slightest way, and not one of them connected to law enforcement delivering a valid warrant in the state of Kentucky. You wasted you own time, and your obsession with Walker's state of mind? It. is. irrelevant.
If he for even a second had some vague notion of Kentucky's SYG, he threw it away when he lied to investigators who fired the first shot that wounded a police officer, before his seat was warm in the chair in the jail examination room. Do you understand me? When you lie in the exam room, you are impeached as a witness on your own behalf in the courtroom. Period. Paragraph.
Furthermore, in Kentucky, SYG doesn't doesn’t apply to force used against police officers once announced. And Stain Breonna's neighbor already gave up that testimony "leave that girl alone".
Why the f do you think Louisville is barricaded right now? That neighbor neutralized Walker's defense and the GJ heard every syllable of him lying that she fired the shot. Wine might be trying to cover his ass on the initial warrant but he's no fool - he knows he has to live there long after all this foolishness is forgotten.
END THREAD
Pretty much what I predicted.
Bullshit. You were flinging around murder charges for Officer Mattingly.
"The police want murder charges for Kenneth Walker, or at least attempted murder, and the BLM types want murder charges for Sgt. Mattingly."
That was irresponsible, it was dumb, it was unsupported, it was never going to happen because the facts and the law never supported those kinds of charges against any of those men. As for Walker, he may very well be facing re-instituted Attempted Murder charges against Officer Mattingly tomorrow.
"Abuse of no-knock warrants is real, even if the claims of "systemic racism" are not. "
It wasn't a no-knock warrant. It was changed that evening to "knock and announce" and that's exactly what the grand jury pivoted upon. They had a credible eyewitness, the same guy who admonished the police to "leave that girl alone", not unironically destroyed Walker's case. Once the LMPD had successfully announced, Walker lost safe harbor in Stand Your Ground. Furthermore, once Walker fired, Officer Mattingly had complete safe harbor in Stand Your Ground.
Again, this is just another example: you did no legwork, just bar talk borne of ignorance.
"Home invaders knocking repeatedly is common. Lots of times they are on drugs. They often think demons are chasing them. They often hope to get the people inside to open the door. Sometimes they are people with a grudge. Sometimes they look around to find something to break down the door with. Sometimes they use a decoy. Sometimes they are at the wrong address."
An example of how you attempted to introduce non-germane anecdotes into a very serious grand jury investigation with lives and property on the line.
"Your claims are interesting, certainly. I have seen a lot of narratives get turned around with better information."
This is just sick. Sick.
"(Mattingly) has a dog in the fight to make the warrant service seem as reasonable as possible. Cynics might say the police wanted to break in before someone answered the door."
Just garbage. Awful. You used to be a really good poster. I suggest you see an MD.
A good friend of mine is related to one of the victims...the 24-year old. She is devastated.
The grand jury investigation of the police officers was peripheral to what we were talking about.
May be you thought that was the focus.
I never did.
Read what you quoted, from me:
BLM types want murder charges for Sgt. Mattingly."
How is that "throwing around murder charges?"
It is a simple statement of fact.
Why lie?
From usatoday.com: The police who were investigating Taylor’s apartment did have a "no-knock" warrant to enter that address. The warrant for Taylor's address was approved due to Taylor’s prior association with a suspect in a drug case.
It was not executed as a no-knock warrant, but as a knock and announce warrant.
It was issued as a no-knock warrant.
Are you claiming the officers went back to the judge and had the warrant changed to a knock and announce warrant?
It is possible they did. I am willing to be convinced.
Reporting can be wrong.
It seems to me, you are emotionally involved in this case.
Maybe you know the officers involved. Maybe you are a policeman in Kentucky, or a family member.
I suggest you step back, think for a moment about what you are writing.
You seem like a pretty bright guy.
Do you have a personal involvement of some kind?
You don't have to answer. It is obvious you value your privacy.
God damn, dude, you are one thick-skulled individual. First of all, you want to convert someone simply being more informed than you are as somehow involved in the invest. It's like this other moron on another thread calling the USPS Postal Inspector Tony Gooden a "she".
It isn't that anyone has any personal involvement, it's that both of you are DUMB. You are both the kind of person who attempt to cover their own lack of knowledge, their own lack of research, their own lack of curiousity, and approach the guy who knows what's going on, and ask a hundred stupid questions and hope to elucidate an answer that lie closest to their own personal, uneducated narrative. It's like watching the kid in class who fears the fact that he hasn't studied a lick ask the teacher question after question to avoid being called on for the actual answer.
So I ask, in contrast, what the fuck is wrong with YOU? Do you have some personal connection to St. Bre? Do you have some skin in this game you are unwilling to disclose?
Look in the mirror.
No, it proves what I said about retirement-bored who ask 10,000 questions because they don't know the answer and are too goddamn lazy to find out for themselves. Just like an average low-info Democrat.
Anyone can read this thread and see how hard you got pwnd and kept coming back for more, asking question 9,999. Disgusting.
I am here to become informed, inform others, to be persuaded, or to persuade others.
If you are here to win arguments, you are not serving the forum well.
What is the point of you posting on this forum if you are not willing to answer questions to inform everyone else?
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