[GOPJ]

...due to their heroism and stubborn resistance, the very best units of the German army were destroyed. American casualties would have been much higher if the US had to face the best of the German army to retake Europe. Many Americans exist today because their forefathers were able to survive WW II and later procreate thanks to those Russian sacrifices.

You're right. We owe the Russian people for this... and we've been jerks about not acknowledging it...

[GoldenState_Rose]

The Russian Revolution of 1917 and Hitler’s ascent to power were related and two equally vital forces in leading to the near self-destruction of Europe in WWI and WWII.

The lines between good and evil are often blurred in war, and the one between B Stalin and Hitler was just that. They are both likely sitting today in hell. Together.

Yes there was military expediency accomplished with our alliance with the Soviets. And is a careful task to distinguish between soldiers doing their duty and the role of the State.

But let’s not allow that to blur the bigger MORAL picture.

The Cold War started immediately following the Second World War with communism proving to be a bigger global threat than Nazism ever was.

A LOT of BAD things went down during the Leningrad Siege (on the part of the Soviet leadership AND even yes, even among civilians themselves: the Soviet system brought out the worst in people.) - and it does humanity no good to throw those realities into the dustbin simply because the current Russian government finds them inconvenient.

[GoldenState_Rose]

Retyping because my prior post was so typo-filled and incoherent.

1) YES of course there was military expediency accomplished with our alliance with the Soviets. And is the careful task of historians and we the people — as we make distinctions between soldiers doing their duty, innocent civilians caught in the line of fire, and the decisions made by those in power.

But let’s not allow military expedience to blur the bigger MORAL picture.

The Cold War started immediately following the Second World War with communism proving to be a bigger global threat than Nazism ever was and taking far more lives!

2) To this day, just look at North Korea - the Kim Il Sung regime Kim Jon Un inherits was installed by who? STALIN! That’s who. And this after American missionaries had dominated the landscape of Pyongyang and Korea was called “the Jerusalem of the East” in the years preceding 1940s.

It was the SOVIETS that turned North Korea into a Gulag-ridden atheist hell hole!

3) The problem is in TODAY’S RUSSIA there is VERY little room for even of the STATE’s role in perpetrating massive crimes against humanity. WHY? Because when all is said and done: ttoday’s government is a descendant of that very State. There was never any formal divorce even following the collapse of the Soviet Union.

The 1917 Russian Revolution centennial last year only further revealed this murky conundrum Russian people find themselves in. There’s a LOT of mixed feelings about the whole ordeal.

4) I’v lived in Russia. Lenin statues continue to abound, Derzhinsky portraits, you name it. Streets are still named after Karl Marx. And STALIN’s memory is “up for debate” at best, and outright deified at worst! He is far more popular today than he was at the closing period of the USSR. His busts and statues have been erected all over the place since during the Putin years. Alongside Orthodox Christian icons sometimes, I might add.

5) A LOT of BAD things went down during the Leningrad Siege (on the part of the Soviet leadership AND even yes, even among civilians themselves: the Soviet system brought out the worst in people: CANNIBALISM anyone? Because the people were so starved.)

And it does humanity no good to throw acknowledgment* of such realities into the dustbin simply because the current Russian government finds them inconvenient.

6) The Russian Revolution of 1917 and Hitler’s ascent to power were related and two equally vital forces in leading to the near self-destruction of Europe in WWI and WWII.

The lines between good and evil are often blurred in war, and the one between Soviet Union and Nazi Germany was just that. Both countries hinged upon the foundations of HELL and that’s why they both COLLAPSED.

7) But failure to acknowledge this fact is what’s creating the atmosphere of Soviet nostalgia, Soviet idealization, so ubiquitous in Russia today.

[kearnyirish2]

The Soviets trained German pilots and developed their planes for them in secret so Germany wouldn’t be caught violating the Versailles Treaty (that is why some Soviet planes bear a striking resemblance to some German ones). The USSR invaded half of Poland (AND THE BALTIC STATES) in 1939 when Germany invaded the other half, killed thousands of Polish officers in Katyn, and was spared a declaration of war by Britain and France. In 1940 they attacked Finland and seized part of their country. Prior to that they had murdered millions in the Ukraine; after that they armed Red China, North Korea, Vietnam, Cuba, Angola, etc.. They only survived WWII because we armed and supplied them - and they maintained a truce with Japan in the Far East while Japs were killing Americans, Brits, Chinese, Filipinos, etc..

Sorry, we don’t owe “the Russians” anything; too bad the USSR survived.