Missing 13th Amendment To The United States Constitution

FR is too important for false information to be posted.

A friend went to federal prison for 4 years after believing the BS these “researchers” sold in book form.

He accepted their claims that the federal income tax was unconstitutional and refused to withhold his employees’ portion of their paychecks for it. After he lost his business, his home, his cars and his family, he ran.

He was caught and spent 48 months in El Reno, all because he accepted the “proof” these clowns claimed in their books. Part of his defense was that he acted in good faith and belief from what he read in the books, but the jury held that as a successful businessman with an MBA and 20 years experience, he should have known better.

The authors refused even testified that they “suspected” their books were BS, and they themselves paid income tax, but claimed their right to publish their BS under the 1st Amendment.

I think you would agree with me that information these scammers is information all FReepers should have, would you not?

FR is too important for false information to be posted.

Lazamataz claims to have an old constitution containing this amendment; why are you calling him a liar?
Moreover, there are many actual texts that corroborate his claim. (The link has photographs of the publications containing the amendment.)

A friend went to federal prison for 4 years after believing the BS these “researchers” sold in book form.

He accepted their claims that the federal income tax was unconstitutional and refused to withhold his employees’ portion of their paychecks for it. After he lost his business, his home, his cars and his family, he ran.

That's not what this is about.

Please, don’t try to start trouble with this “liar” accusation. We have already had way too much of that this political season.

Regarding “dpcuments” found on the Internet, and claims associated with them, I might remind you that there are thousands of phony documents floating around. Remember the “documents” that “proved” Bush 43 fraudulently avoided service in Vietnam?

I’ll bet Dan Rather remembers them very well.

If you will do a little research, you will learn that this scam is nothing new. In fact, it has been around since the 1990s

Of course, if you believe it, you can get “proof” from the two scammers involved. Just send them $39.95 for their book “proving” it... and they will throw in their “proof” that the income tax is unconstitutional, and the Queen of England is really the world’s largest heroin dealer too.

Please, don’t try to start trouble with this “liar” accusation. We have already had way too much of that this political season.

I'm not trying to start trouble; Laz did make the claim that he had one of these copies.

Did you look at the images on the page? At all?
Perhaps I should just put them here:

PA (1818)

PA (1824)

CT (1821)

MA (1816)

VA (1819)

And many more.
Yet, perhaps one of the most persuasive:

The whole thing can be downloaded here.

Did you ever bother to read how and why those documents were created? And more importantly, how they are being used to scam people into buying some BS “research.”

http://www.thirdamendment.com/8SCIDLJ577.pdf

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Titles_of_Nobility_Amendment

http://www.quatloos.com/13th_amendement.htm

http://blog.constitutioncenter.org/2014/12/the-case-of-the-missing-13th-amendment-to-the-constitution/

If you’ll fall for these scammers stories, then you’ll fall for anything, or perhaps you are one of them.

End of discussion.

If you’ll fall for these scammers stories, then you’ll fall for anything, or perhaps you are one of them.

I’ve read a bit on both sides of the argument — but none of that matters to what I said, that there is EVIDENCE in support of the claim. Heck, even the PDF you linked admits as much “Well into the second half of the nineteenth century, some textbooks, state compilations of law, and even on one occasion a compilation of law published under the auspices of Congress erroneously included TONA as if ratified.”

I’m NOT saying that they’re PROOF, but that the “missing 13th amendment” crowd does have some EVIDENCE to support its claims. (ie the actual documents.)

The Flat Earth Society claims evidence of their beliefs too.

In every case, there is evidence on both sides. In some cases, such as this, there is a preponderance of evidence on one side. That's why every court has ruled there is no mystery missing 13th amendment.

There are two other issues here as well. Even if it had passed, it would have only forbidden by law what has been a long-standing American practice. We, as Americans, do not formally accept foreign titles.

For example, Norman Schwarzkopf was invested by Queen Elizabeth II as a Knight Commander of the Royal Order of the Bath. That made him Sir Norman in the UK, but of course, he never used the title here.

The supposed 13th Amendment would have made it illegal for an American to accept such a title, BUT ONLY WHEN GIVEN BY A FOREIGN POWER. A lawyer using the term Esquire after his name may be gilding the lily a bit, but the Esquire is not a title given by a foreign power, so there would be no applicability to remove a lawyer's citizenship, as no foreign power, ruler, etc was involved.

Secondly, Esquire is not a title of nobility, at least us sued by American lawyers. it simply means, by convention, that they are a member of the Bar. It has no legal significance. In fact, anyone could put Esquire after their name and there would be no legal prohibition, penalty nor privilege for doing so. (unless they also claimed to be a lawyer if they were not.)

Finally, it very much maters where this all came from. Back in the 1970s through the 1990s, there were a series of widely promoted tax avoidance scams. In each case, for the payment of a few dollars (often a few thousand dollars) scammers would sell you information about a program that would eliminate most or all of your income tax, and in same cases, property taxes too.

The first was the “I'm a minister of my own church, and my home is my manse (residence) my family is my parishioners and salary paid for the upkeep of my home is tax free.” Many people paid the Universal Life Church in Modesto, California $25 to $100 to become “ministers.”

The IRS simply disallowed it. Some people went to jail for promoting it. I remember one was an airline pilot.

The other two big scams were the “Income Tax is Unconstitutional” scam and the “Real 13th Amendment” scam.

Both were promoted by the same two men. The Income Tax is Unconstitutional scam was sold nationwide. The Real 13th Amendment scam was primarily sold to farmers and ranchers who thought they could use to stop lawyers working for banks from foreclosing on their properties.

In every case of redord, both these scams lost in the courts.

The important thing to not forget is that this 13th Amendment thing is nothing new, and was started, not to help Americans, but to sell them “research” so they could avoid paying their taxes or keep property even though they were not paying their mortgage.

With the Internet, the original “research” has been posted many times, often by additional scammers wanting to get someone to give them money fr the “real story.”

It never was an attempt to help people, it was always to make money for the two scammers, and those that have followed them on the Internet.

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