Rules of a gunfight

redonkulas channel you tube ^ | 3/24/15 | Terrence Popp

[trebb]

In a gun fight... You need to take your time in a hurry. Fast is fine but accuracy is final.
You must learn to be slow in a hurry.

I used to notice that on the lead-in for the old "Gun Smoke" series, that when Matt was drawing ans shooting, you could hear the other (unseen) gun fire a tad before his (he even did a little eye wince) but he was still standing after the gun fight.

This made me think of what I considered to be the realism of that short moment.

[Idaho_Cowboy]

He’ll feel better after he’s robbed a couple banks.

[archy]

***And then bring friends with two guns.

. ... . REALLY BIG guns...

Like, with treads and armor...***

Our M48s and M60,/ M60A1s had three guns, the 90mm or 105mm main gun, the .30 or 7,62 caliber machinegun mounted coaxially with the main gun, and the tank commander's .50 caliber.

There are variations on the theme; in 1973 I found out pretty quick that the Israelis added an extra 7,62 MG at the loader's position so that he too could help disturb the aim of RPG or wire-guided antitank missile gunners if he happened to be *up top.* It made sense, since it used the same belted ammo as the co-ax, and provided a spare gun if the co-ax [usually a reworked US .30 Browning in 7,62] overheated or broke.

And of course we had a happy collection of personal weapons as well, initially our own, but a few picked from folks from the other side who now longer needed them, just in case our own ammo ran low without likely hope of resupply.

So thought most tanks/tankers do most of their business with the main gun and co-ax, there are additional options. Lots of them....

[archy]

You going to pull those pistols or whistle Dixie?

Oh, I wish I was in the land of cotton....

[archy]

Ping.

Target, repeat, hit him again! Treadhead ping! Ontos ping! Target, cease fire.

[archy]

Paul Newman movies are Alinsky training movies.

I have a question says Paul N. to Richard Boone. [Think *Says it to Mr. Alinsky.*]

How are you going to down the hill?

[NFHale]

“...wire-guided antitank missile gunners...”

Those Russian Sagger AT missiles were nasty little bastards...

So I’ll re-phrase my original “REALLY BIG guns” to “LOTS of guns... Big Guns, Little Guns, and all points in between”

Plus Hair... those tankers in the picture have MEGA-hair!!! No high and tight whitewalls there!!!

I like that old Sherman too.

[archy]

I used to notice that on the lead-in for the old "Gun Smoke" series, that when Matt was drawing ans shooting, you could hear the other (unseen) gun fire a tad before his (he even did a little eye wince) but he was still standing after the gun fight.

That fella Marshal Matt was drawing against was Arvo Ojala, one of the best holster makers and gun-handling coaches in the country at the time- and up to and including the 1985 movie Silverado.

[archy]

Plus Hair... those tankers in the picture have MEGA-hair!!! No high and tight whitewalls there!!! I like that old Sherman too.

Most of the reservists had arrived directly from home and caught rides from Israeli military checkpoints on the roads.

During the '73 war I crewed on a M48. But after that, I got to work on an M4A1E8 that still had the 76mm in it. Loved it.

[DuncanWaring]

Welcome back.

[DuncanWaring]

Did your old man know this guy?

[archy]

***Those Russian Sagger AT missiles were nasty little bastards...***

*Sagger* to NATO, Malyutka [little baby] to Ivan and the Russian-speaking Israeli Jews of Russian descent.

Even the early ones could blow a quarter-sized hole through a half-meter of tank armor, and throw off enough white-hot jet and spall chips to open up hydraulic lines, ammo propellent charges and, oh yeah, the crew inside and shred them and set them afire. And after they started mounting them on BMP and BMD infantry tracks and BRDM wheeled recon cars, you could no longer go by the old rule of *kill the enemy tanks first, then clean up the support vehicles.*

The American M47 *Dragon* was never its equal, though the newer *Javelin* fire-and-forget missile beats it all ways...except maybe in numbers.

Malyutkim were the reason Israeli new tanks and rebuilt old ones were outfitted with mortars: white phosphorous smoke between the missile tracker and his target could both obscure his aim, resulting in a miss, or could burn through or cut the control wires, resulting in a miss. And the extended time of the missile flight, at a little over 100 meters per second for its 500-3000 meter range there were a lot of opportunities for the missile driver to lose his concentration or worse. But there could be dozens of them on the way....

[archy]

Welcome back.

I've been around a few months. But I've been busy, and likely will remain so until the election.

Thanks for the kind thought, tho!

[archy]

I suspect ISIS has more of our tanks than we do.

Nope. But all the ones ISIS/ Daesch has have crews.

Sierra, Nevada US Military vehicle depot:

[NFHale]

Neat old tanks... M48 Patton.

I remember seeing film of old German Pkw IVs and Panthers in Syrian(?) or Egyptian markings fighting in the 67 and 73 wars.

[NFHale]

Ha! My old man LOOKED JUST LIKE that guy in some of the pictures I have.

They kind of ALL did...

[NFHale]

Sort of like a miniature TOW missile.

[archy]

I remember seeing film of old German Pkw IVs and Panthers in Syrian(?) or Egyptian markings fighting in the 67 and 73 wars.

Syrians had 6 Jagdpanzer IV, 5 Hummel, 28 StuG III and 25 Pzkw Mk IV at the beginning of the 1967 war. Afterwards, they had considerably fewer, and the Israeli tank museum at Latrun had a couple of new display pieces. There were also some StuG III [batch of 12, then another of 60] and 45PZKW IV from Czechoslovolia, not certain when they arrived or if they were replacements for combat losses.

Fella on the Mk IV is Australian newspaperman and TV newsie Mal_Walden in Gaza around 1969.

This one [below] is a PzKpfw IV, Ausf G, captured from the Syrian Army in the Six Day War, also in the Yad la-Shiryon Museum. If you ever get the chance, go visit Israel. When the snoops at the airport ask the purpose of your visit, tell them you're going to the museums because you're a tankist.

[PLMerite]

“2 to the face, then 1 to the chest, then empty the magazine!”

Well, that pretty much covers all the advice I was gonna give...

[PLMerite]

Oh, those are Israeli tankers...

I thought at first it was a scene from Kelly's Heroes: