Posted on 12/16/2013 8:20:48 PM PST by marktwain
Oh, I agree that the Walker Fire Control System is a flawed design. No quibble there.
The crux of the matter in Remington’s case is money. They went with the WFCS design because it allows them to harden the connector (a little strip of bent steel that rides in front of the trigger) apart from the main trigger bar. This is the same reason why, on the Rem 700, they have a bolt that is made from soldering three pieces together: The main bolt body, the handle and the forward part of the bolt where the lugs are. They did this so that they could heat treat the part with the lugs and not have to deal with heat treatment on the rest of the bolt. There are many bolts made from a single-piece bolt (with the lugs) and a handle is welded or soldered on, but Remington is the only one I know of where they chose to get so damned cheap about their heat treatment that they’d break the main part of the bolt into two pieces, heat treat only one and then silver solder them together. In every aspect on most all their products, Remington looks to cut costs to the bone. Appearance and quality be damned. There’s a reason why I own only one Remington rifle and nothing else from them.
At TSJC they warned us loud and long about Rem 700 triggers and their failure mechanisms, and to never set them under about 4 pounds, for reasons of protecting one’s self against liability. If you want to set some other type of trigger to 3.5 or whatever, OK, but the Rem700 original trigger is a lawsuit just waiting to happen - and has happened to Remington, several times in the last 20 years. They’ve paid off millions of bucks for this exact type of failure - i.e., failure of the connector to return with the trigger, the safety is what is holding the pin in a cocked position, drop the safety and the pin fires. The problem only gets worse when the trigger pull weight spring (which pushes back on the face of the connector) is set to a light weight. If someone wants a 1 to 2 lb. trigger in a Rem 700, they really need to get an aftermarket trigger.
The best way to see what is going on here is to look at the patent drawings:
See Fig 1. The connector is item # 39. It just floats on the front of the trigger, item #40, held in place there by the spring item #42. If there is rust, dirt, gummed up lube in between the two side-plates of the trigger group, the connector can be pushed forward by a trigger pull, and the gunk puts enough friction on the connector that it can overcome the spring pressure (from item #42), which leaves the connector off of the trigger. Now you’re set for a firing from letting off the safety.
This would especially happen because you used to be able to pull the Rem700 trigger with the safety on, and this, as you point out, is a rather large fault in the design. Safety on, pull trigger, connector doesn’t come back, and you have NO CLUE that it didn’t come back, flick off safety and rifle fires.
In this case, the owner was at least smart enough to check the rifle without ammo.
In Mike Walker’s defense, he suggested a fix to this issue to Remington years and years ago, but Remington never took his suggestion.
However, the damage is very slight, and not easily noticeable from the outside.
Could indicate that it initially looked like a discolored spot or two.
A cartridge should not go in a gun that has not been checked over thoroughly enough to discover this sort of malfunction.
Thanks for telling us about this, but it saddens me that it was necessary.
Never count exclusively on a physical safety.
The strongest safety is the one between your ears.
Thnx!
I better head to the lake and see if I can dredge mine up and check them...
Well, there go my hopes for recovering all those guns people loss in terrible boating accidents.
Remington 700’s are a dangerous rifle with a history of misfires. I think there is an after market drop in trigger you can get for them. Best advice is just don’t buy one.
Mr. GG2 recently told a friend not to buy one. He went out and bought one anyway. First day out with his teen son hunting; missfire. Next day he sold it and bought a Ruger American which was the gun Mr. GG2 initially suggested. For $358 you can’t go wrong.
Heck, ALL my rifles are dangerous!
I am not a big fan of manual safeties. It was a big part of me changing my carry piece from semi-auto back to a revolver.
In your opinion, does a Timney unit solve this problem?
First, there are three problems:
1. The Rem700 trigger blocks the sear, not the trigger.
2. The Rem700 trigger has a connector that floats off the trigger bar itself, causing the sear to have nothing but the safety holding it up.
3. Single stage triggers should simply not be adjusted to very light weights, if you want a really light trigger, you need to look into a trigger designed for really light pulls. Typical single-stage sporting triggers aren’t those triggers.
OK, so the Timney issue:
An older Timney that “adopts” your Remington safety lever onto their trigger fixes issue (2), but not (1) and (3). I wouldn’t use these any more.
The new Timney Remington triggers that have their own safety mechanism that blocks the trigger, not the sear, solve problems (1) and (2). You’ll notice that Timney has changed all their triggers for the Rem700 to block the trigger, not the sear.
Only a trigger designed for light weights (i.e., designed to be really reliable and consistent under 2 lbs) solves (3). IMO, this would be a two-stage trigger, like the Anschuetz trigger group, or something like the CG Jackson triggers.
I have never had trouble with my rifles. I am not after really light triggers either.
That said enough folks whose opinion I value, such as yourself, have convinced me I should change them. I have one Timney and like it.
As always, appreciate your advice.
Merry Christmas!
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