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To: donmeaker

Whether they were “Serbian terrorists” depends on your perspective. Some would call them patriots.

I agree with you that Archduke Franz Ferdinand and his wife Sophie (who was an unintended casualty) should not necessarily have been a target. He was, in my opinion, the “best one” in the family of Austro-Hungarians in power at that time. His mistake was coming to Sarajevo, Bosnia on June 28, 1914, a holy day in Serb history - Vidovdan - which marks the day that the Christian Serbs fought so valiantly on Kosovo field in 1389 and lost their entire army to the Ottoman Turks who would bring Islam to the Balkans and thus the heart of Europe.

Yugoslavia did not turn out to be a “reward” for the Serbs. The Serbs would end up being the victim of their internal enemies who took advantage of “Yugoslavia” while it served their purposes and then did everything in their power to destroy the country when their agenda called for it.

Please tell us more about the Zimmerman telegram -

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8 posted on 11/12/2013 4:41:56 PM PST by Ravnagora
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To: Ravnagora

The Archduke went to Sarajavo that week to celebrate his wedding anniversary. Sophie was not of the high nobility, and he married her for love. He was permitted to marry her, but only on the condition that their children could not inherit. She was routinely ‘cut’ at formal events in Vienna, and wasn’t allowed to be next to her husband, but rather, was made to sit at the children’s table, away from the high nobility.

Deeply in love, Franz Ferdinand refused to consider marrying anyone else. Pope Leo XIII, Tsar Nicholas II of Russia, and the German Emperor Wilhelm II all made representations on his behalf to Emperor Franz Joseph of Austria, arguing that the disagreement between Franz Joseph and Franz Ferdinand was undermining the stability of the monarchy.[citation needed]

Finally, in 1899, Emperor Franz Joseph agreed to permit Franz Ferdinand to marry Sophie, on condition that the marriage would be morganatic and that their descendants would not have succession rights to the throne.[5] Sophie would not share her husband’s rank, title, precedence, or privileges; as such, she would not normally appear in public beside him. She would not be allowed to ride in the royal carriage or sit in the royal box in theaters.

The wedding took place on 1 July 1900, at Reichstadt (now Zákupy) in Bohemia; Franz Joseph did not attend the affair, nor did any archduke including Franz Ferdinand’s brothers.[5] The only members of the imperial family who were present were Franz Ferdinand’s stepmother, Princess Maria Theresa of Braganza, and her two daughters. Upon the marriage, Sophie was given the title “Princess of Hohenberg” (Fürstin von Hohenberg) with the style “Her Serene Highness” (Ihre Durchlaucht). In 1909, she was given the more senior title “Duchess of Hohenberg” (Herzogin von Hohenberg) with the style “Her Highness” (Ihre Hoheit). This raised her status considerably, but she still yielded precedence at court to all the archduchesses. Whenever a function required the couple to assemble with the other members of the imperial family, Sophie was forced to stand far down the line, separated from her husband.

The terrorists were terrorists. There was no war between Serbia and Austria-Hungaria at the time. They targeted the Archduke for political reasons, which makes them terrorists.

As commander in chief of the Army on an inspection, he could take her with him she could be with him, and be shown every honor, an unusual present for her.

Baron Margutti, Francis Joseph’s aide-de-camp, was told by Francis Ferdinand in 1895 and—with a remarkable consistency in view of the changes that took place in the intervening years—again in 1913, that the introduction of the dual system in 1867 had been disastrous and that, when he ascended the throne, he intended to re-establish strong central government: this objective, he believed, could be attained only by the simultaneous granting of far-reaching administrative autonomy to all the nationalities of the monarchy. In a letter of February 1, 1913, to Berchtold, the Foreign Minister, in which he gave his reasons for not wanting war with Serbia, the Archduke said that “irredentism in our country ... will cease immediately if our Slavs are given a comfortable, fair and good life” instead of being trampled on (as they were being trampled on by the Hungarians).

This was the man that the terrorists murdered- because they didn’t want Slavs in the AH empire to have a good life, they wanted them in a separate union of slavs (Jugoslavia).

Arthur Zimmerman was the German foreign minister, US counterpart would be Sec of State. He sent a telegram to the German embassy in Mexico City offering, to Mexico if Mexico made war on the US, California, Texas, Arizona, and New Mexico. He sent it over cables through the US using a cipher, over cables that were tapped by the British. The Brits were able to decrypt the telegram, and provided a decryption and translation to the US. The US was able to get the original from Western Union, and with coaching, decrypt it, showing aggressive German intentions as well as a violation of diplomatic privilege, to go along with their unrestricted submarine warfare (a war crime). the invasion of neutral Belgium (war crime), use of gas (war crime).


9 posted on 11/12/2013 9:37:55 PM PST by donmeaker
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To: Ravnagora

The Serbs did fight the Turks. So did the Austrians, defending Vienna twice from the Turks.

I don’t see why the Serbs try to excuse terrorism with this holy day nonsense. Sarajevo is not Kosovo, nor was it anywhere in Servia.

Except that Servia was like the farmer of moderate appetite, who only wanted a small farm to call his own, and all the land next to it.


10 posted on 11/12/2013 9:42:06 PM PST by donmeaker
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To: Ravnagora

Princip was sitting at a cafe across the street. He instantly seized his opportunity and walked across the street and shot the royal couple.[30] He first shot Sophie in the abdomen and then Franz Ferdinand shot in the neck. Franz leaned over his wife crying. He was still alive when witnesses arrived to render aid.[4] His dying words to Sophie were, ‘Don’t die darling, live for our children’

So Princip shot her first. Her death was not unintended.Terrorist.


11 posted on 11/12/2013 10:27:00 PM PST by donmeaker
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