Posted on 10/28/2013 2:10:40 PM PDT by aic4ever
With such high premiums, accompanied by de facto poor service in the form of high deductibles, the number of "eff-you" types who will forego coverage for the penalty would seem to be high.
The long view of this idea that Obamacare will collapse under its own weight due to lack of participation, is that with the market unable to support the healthcare needs of the many sick and old, on the backs of the few healthy and young, the left wing will at some point execute the complete takeover of the healthcare system in the form of single payer.
I'm not immune to thinking this myself, and certainly feel that this would be the worst case scenario, resulting in rationing of healthcare, and DMV-like service in the hospitals themselves, not just on the website where you're supposed to be able to sign up for your coverage.
All of this said, I've been spending a good part of the last week or so researching the available plans, and I'm seeing something else happening, that may be more catastrophic both to insurance companies, and the government, than anyone has thought to this point.
(Excerpt) Read more at organizedexploitation.blogspot.com ...
Does anyone really think that a person who gets a government phone, food stamps, and public housing is really going to pay one dime of a deductible because they broke their wrist punching the lady next door whis disrespected her? Does anyone really think that they will pay $2,000 deductible for beating a heroin addiction intreatment?
Libs will “plough” on ahead towards SINGLE PAYER,
IF they have the POLITICAL POWER (WH, with BOTH houses) and can force the FED to buy unlimited quantities of BONDS (ie NO debt limit). Confiscation of property from the RICH (?)
will only allow them to go on for a little while.
My previous experience with a health care savings account was that it had to be used in the year it was saved or you gave it up to the government. Is that no longer true? Or was it because that’s what my company offered? The author implies you can build it over multiple years, which would be awesome. And, if that’s the case, why not use it for self-insurance and forget Obamacare?
Sharp kid. No matter how you slice and dice it the vegematic O care will not last beyond its warranty, oh, say, one year.
The left got to win the elections in 2014. That will be the first clue. A prominent Dem adviser summed up the situation, “The Dems are f@@ked in 2014”. I think that is true. Many blue collar Dems are sitting out of the election. GOP is motivated to go vote. Question is will the GOP know what to do with the electoral victories in 2014 if they control both houses of Congress? Gingrich did in 1994. Keeping the individualistic GOP reps and Senators unified will be the biggest challenge to who ever becomes the leader of the GOP.
Think of your typical wino or drug addict who subsists mostly or entirely on public assistance and gets their insurance nearly for free due to the income based subsidies involved. They have nearly zero incentive to minimize their healthcare consumption because there is little or no benefit to them to do so.
These are the people much more likely to crash the system than your typical elderly lady who had a fall and needs a hip replacement. They are also far less likely to be reigned in by the system because they are Obama voters.
Think it won't happen? Think again. Years ago when I drove cab for a living, one particular chronic wino accounted for more than half of my fares to and from the local VA hospital. He was in and out more often than your veteran who had occasional need to use the system, because the wino was an expert on just how far he could exploit the system to enable his lifestyle. And a veteran truly in need would be at a disadvantage in competing with the wino for limited VA resources.
Use it or lose it. And the amount you can set aside will go down every year. Don’t want all you tax evaders taking advantage of any tax free income just because you are employed. /s/
The ‘true’ health savings accounts allow you to build up the money over many years, using it as a savings plan for retirement.
FSA’s (Flexible Spending Accounts) are ‘use it or lose it’. The fact that many companies call FSA’s ‘health savings accounts’, or HSA’s, confuses the issue. They are not that.
The IRS only recognizes the true HSA’s as a way to accumulate money over the years.
Premiums are based on claims.
So if everyone follows the authors advice, the insurance companies will simply raise the premiums until premium income is in balance with claims paid.
The only way to beat the system, other than through the legislative process, is to opt out.
A zero premium raised to two zeros will not fund obumbler care.
The left got to win the elections in 2014. That will be the first clue. A prominent Dem adviser summed up the situation, “The Dems are f@@ked in 2014”. I think that is true. Many blue collar Dems are sitting out of the election. GOP is motivated to go vote. Question is will the GOP know what to do with the electoral victories in 2014 if they control both houses of Congress? Gingrich did in 1994. Keeping the individualistic GOP reps and Senators unified will be the biggest challenge to who ever becomes the leader of the GOP.
I’m surprised that there isn’t some type of Obamacare Supplement Insurance.
As already mentioned by Balding_Eagle, you’re thinking of the older Flex Spending Accounts being use it or lose it. Health Savings Accounts allow you to save as much as you want, with a certain amount of it being tax deductible, currently $3,050 a year for individuals, or $6,100 a year for families.
I don’t know about all HSA’s, but my HSA can even ultimately be operated almost like a 401k if you wanted to. You could leave, say $5K or some such amount in the immediately accessible account, and allocate the rest to an investment portfolio, if you felt like risking your health savings that way.
You’re also able to use the account to pay for anything you want, not just medical expenses, but then what you do spend on non-medical expenses carries a tax penalty with it. That being said, it’s a potentially better emergency cash flow option than raiding a 401k, since you don’t end up penalized for it until tax time.
I thought of this as well, and perhaps I should have written another paragraph to address it. The issue I see here pertaining to the hypothetical, would be that while the lower premiums would go up, so also would the higher ones, so I would think the overwhelming incentive would still be for everyone to minimize his or her own costs.
As others have commented, though, this somewhat unfairly assumes everyone has an eye on doing that, which they do not.
ACA increased the penalty to 20% for non health related withdrawals if one is under 65.
I still manage my ex wife’s finances for her. About 4 years ago she took on a new job and I helped her pick out her insurance plan. Health savings. She paid $280 a month and her employer contributed 3k per year into the account.
The $280.00 was more or less to pay for a catastrophic plan with a 5k deductible and the employer contribution went into the account. She has not needed medical care since she started there and now has more than 12k in the account to cover the deductible should she need it.
At retirement, she can roll the money out into her 401k and draw on it.
It’s really a pretty good option if you can get something like it.
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