ALERT: Chief Judge Of The United States District Court For DC Gives Leave Of Court(Lamberth & Taitz)

BirtherReport.com ^ | June 15, 2013 | Unattributed

[justiceseeker93]

Wasn't aware of the SSA "120 year rule," which presumes that a person listed as 120 years old or more is dead, and therefore loses any privacy rights he may have had with respect to his SS-5.

But with respect to SS-5 forms, the 120 year rule isn't really necessary, provided the requester can supply an individual's name and Social Security number. The SSA regularly complies with requests for SS-5 forms of persons who are very much alive, and even has a form for such requests that can be downloaded from its web site (or at least had one several years ago). The requester doesn't need to supply a particular reason for requesting any individual's SS-5, pays a relatively modest processing fee, and can usually get the copy of the SS-5 by mail within a few months.

However, the SSA can redact information from the SS-5 copy on its own whims. Furthermore, it can respond that it doesn't have the requested SS-5 in its files, which leaves the requester at a loss.

The name "Harrison J. Bounel" would at first glance seem like it wouldn't belong to Russian immigrant, suggesting that it was a psueudonym used by someone else or a named changed later in the immigrant's life. Unfortunately, this could potentially throw another monkey wrench into the search.

[Huskerfan44]

Read responses.
FUBB.

[bgill]

That would be sweet.

Of course, the FBI/CIA/NSA/IRA/TSA and the WH gardener will claim an accountant somewhere along the way at SS goofed up and just happened to give Mr. Teflon the wrong number.

[Ray76]

Of course all left handed people have poor penmanship.

Of course it was a data entry mistake.

Of course SSA computers did not have even rudimentary checks, such as ZIP Code & State checks.

Of course course the SSN just happens to be associated with a Mr. Bounel in Connecticut.

Of course there’s no connection between Bounel and the Robinsons, the family of Obama’s wife.

Of course his SS card has a defective date stamp.

Of course it is all just coincidence.

[SteveH]

It is common for children placed in the Federal Foster Care system to have duplicate applications and multiple SSNs assigned to them. It is also common for children in the Federal Foster Care system to be issued a SSN for legal custodian in one state while living with foster parents in another state.

IMHO a lot of the really difficult work that has been put into these investigations is finding people with similar locations, backgrounds, numbers, etc. and being able to compare their documents with those alleged to be Obama's documents. It would be wonderful if some of the foster children who are alleged to have been processed for SSANs in Connecticut were found and of those who were found, some of those were to share their documentation voluntarily with the investigation and/or public (if this has not already been done).

[SteveH]

Aha, I see from your link

http://svenmagnussen.blogspot.com/2013/01/deconstructing-thomas-louis-woods.html

that you are asserting that Thomas Wood is just one such individual— interesting...

[SvenMagnussen]

“It would be wonderful if some of the foster children who are alleged to have been processed for SSANs in Connecticut were found and of those who were found, some of those were to share their documentation voluntarily with the investigation and/or public (if this has not already been done).”

Or Obama could admit he was involved in the Federal foster care program from 1971 to 1979. In 1977, a CT based contractor providing legal services for children in the federal foster care system filed an SS-5 with SSA on Obama’s behalf.

Anyone can obtain a copy of their Form SS-5 and NUMIDENT file and choose the make a redacted copy public. Obama could easily prove his CT based SSN was valid and end the lawsuit.

[justiceseeker93]

Or Obama could admit he was involved in the Federal foster care program from 1971 to 1979. In 1977, a CT based contractor providing legal services for children in the federal foster care system filed an SS-5 with SSA on Obama’s behalf.

This is pure speculation on your part, and the probability of this scenario is near zero.

If you think a CT based contractor was providing legal services for Obama in Hawaii, NAME THAT CONTRACTOR!

Furthermore, if Obama was living with and being well taken care of by his grandparents in Hawaii at the time of issuance of the CT SSN, why would he need the federal foster care contractor anyway?

[American Constitutionalist]

Eggexactly .. feed the monster until it pukes...

[SteveH]

On your blogspot there is what is apparently a fogbow produced copy of a May 2013 amicus curae filing in the Alabama court case by Albert W. L. Moore. It states on page 2:

“In 1977, Obama started using the social security number of a deceased American citizen to avoid applying for one on the basis of his American citizenship.”

Can that statement be reconciled with the seemingly new conjecture (if I understand it correctly) that Obama or Catholic Social Services of Ct actually did apply for a SSAN for Obama in 1977?

I wonder how Mr. Moore got the information for the statements he seems to make in his amicus brief. Has it been reviewed by any respected third party legal commentators?

Sorry if the above seems somewhat fragmented since I do not always focus on this topic and so I may not be up to date with current theories.

[SvenMagnussen]

"This is pure speculation on your part, and the probability of this scenario is near zero.

If you think a CT based contractor was providing legal services for Obama in Hawaii, NAME THAT CONTRACTOR!

Furthermore, if Obama was living with and being well taken care of by his grandparents in Hawaii at the time of issuance of the CT SSN, why would he need the federal foster care contractor anyway?"

Research unaccompanied minors at a border crossing with foreign nationality during the 70's. Foreign children at border crossing, traveling alone, are not whisked through customs with a hope and a prayer the child will be picked up by a responsible adult.

The prove it before trail meme has worked well for Obots and Concerned Freepers. According to the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, allegations are made in a complaint and assumed to be true until litigated in court. So, the plaintiff wants to allege a specific allegation without giving the opposition enough material to disprove the allegation without discovery.

For example, an allegation Obama is ineligible to hold the Office of the President of the United States because he is not a natural born citizen is better than Obama is not eligible because he naturalized as a U.S. Citizen in 1983. In the second instance, Obots point out Obama's amended COLB from Hawaii and say evidence does not exist to prove he was born anywhere else. Birth certificates are amendable. To determine Obama's qualification for President, you have to examine his immigration file with DHS.

In the seventies, there were two HHS contractors providing service to minors in the Federal foster care system. One of those contractors was headquartered in Connecticut. The problem with naming the contractor in Connecticut is that Obots and Concerned Freepers look up the contractor in the post-Obama administration and claim the contractor does not exist anymore or no longer provides services for HHS in Federal foster care system.

The solution is for Obama to publish his NUMIDENT file with SSA with the first five numbers of his SSN redacted. The NUMIDENT file is the post-processing document created by the SSA after they receive a Form SS-5, application for SSN. If Obama was a U.S. Citizen at the time of his application, there will be a "Y" in the PRA field of the NUMIDENT file. If there was a data entry error on the zip code of the return address (HI address with CT zip code), then the NUMIDENT file will identify it and refer to a correction document, if any.

If Obama won't publish the document, then Orly should notify the Court a rebuttal witness is available to testify Obama's number was originally assigned to Bounel and request discovery to uncover evidence Bounel used that number before Obama got it. Orly could subpoena Medicaid or Medicare documents in CT, HI and NY to establish that SSN was originally assigned to Bounel and not Obama. She could subpoena Federal and state income tax returns to establish Bounel was using that SSN before Obama. And last, but certainly not least, colleges and universities used the SSNas an identifying student number in the early 80's. Orly could subpoena Occidental's records for any use of that SSN. Obama could have stolen the number from a university employee.

The second part of your question assumes Obama's grandparents were unable to provide for him, so he was put in the Federal foster care system. Obama's parents were stripped of the parental rights in 1971, not his grandparents. A HI Court ruled Stanley Ann and BHO Sr were unfit parents after the Soetoro adoption was annulled.

In the seventies, only children with foreign nationality were placed in the Federal foster care program. The HHS contractor headquartered in Connecticut administered the program. Obama's grandparents were his guardians and received monthly stipends to provide a home for Obama after his parents were stripped of their parental rights. That does not prevent his grandparents from providing personal funds to support their grandchild.

[SvenMagnussen]

I have never heard of Albert W. L. Moore, Jr. until I read the amicus brief posted by Jack Ryan on Scribd.com. I don’t know where Moore got his information.

If two witnesses, who have never discussed their story, tell a similar story concerning Obama’s biography, then you have corroborating evidence to rebut any claim Obama is not immigrant to the United States.

Permanent Resident Aliens are entitled to apply for a SSN by submitting Form SS-5 to the SSA with accompanying documents to prove eligibility. A trained SSA documents examiner reviews the documents and verifies the authenticity of those documents. The NUMIDENT file contains coded language to identify the verified biography of the applicant and any subsequent amendments or corrections.

The return address of the applicant, the nationality of the applicant and other biographical information will be indentified in the NUMIDENT file. Anyone is entitled to request a certified copy of their Form SS-5 and NUMIDENT file with a request to SSA. For someone other than Obama to obtain these documents, Obama would have to sign a waiver of privacy rights or a Court order must be obtained.

[SteveH]

If two witnesses, who have never discussed their story, tell a similar story concerning Obama’s biography, then you have corroborating evidence to rebut any claim Obama is not immigrant to the United States.

I thought one requires affidavits at a minimum to enter documentary evidence in a court of law. So far as I can tell, no one is producing credible signed affidavits yet. And documentary evidence is only allowed at the evidentiary stage of a trial, not during a mandamus proceeding or appeal. (NB: IANAL...)

[justiceseeker93]

Research unaccompanied minors at a border crossing with foreign nationality during the 70's. Foreign children at border crossing, traveling alone, are not whisked through customs with a hope and a prayer the child will be picked up by a responsible adult.

You have absolutely no documentation that Barack Obama (or Barry Soetoro or whatever name he went under c. 1971) was an unaccompanied minor at a border crossing with foreign nationality and travelling alone. You merely conjecture that such facts pertained at the time and leap to your next conjecture, i.e., that a federal foster care contractor from Connecticut was called in to supervise Barry's care in Hawaii. And you take that incredibly huge leap in logic to insinuate that young Barry, living in Hawaii, would have been legally obtained a Social Security number whose first three digits indicate that it was issued by an SSA office to a CT resident.

Either you are deliberately making yourself a fly in our ointment in this discussion, or your skills in logic and reasoning, not to mention history, need vast improvement for anyone to take you seriously.

[justiceseeker93]

Obama's parents were stripped of the parental rights in 1971, not his grandparents. A HI Court ruled Stanley Ann and BHO Sr were unfit parents after the Soetoro adoption was annulled.

Again, pure conjecture on your part. If you have the court documents to prove those facts, we would like to see the images of them.

[Fantasywriter]

Thank you both for your pings & informative posts. For a person like me who is pressed for time, your heads ups & instructive summaries are invaluable.

‘Harrison Bounel’ is a lame enough sounding name, Obama just might have dreamed it up as an alias. It incorporates two of his initials:

Harrison Bounel

Barack Hussein

He’s silly enough to imagine that reversing the order would be brilliant. What does the ‘J’ stand for—Jarrett? [Not saying this is how the name came about, only that it’s sufficiently dorky-sounding to be the product of the same mind that wrote the stupid (anti-Semitic) poem about fig-stomping apes.]

[SvenMagnussen]

You have absolutely no documentation that Barack Obama (or Barry Soetoro or whatever name he went under c. 1971) was an unaccompanied minor at a border crossing with foreign nationality and travelling alone. You merely conjecture that such facts pertained at the time and leap to your next conjecture, i.e., that a federal foster care contractor from Connecticut was called in to supervise Barry's care in Hawaii. And you take that incredibly huge leap in logic to insinuate that young Barry, living in Hawaii, would have been legally obtained a Social Security number whose first three digits indicate that it was issued by an SSA office to a CT resident."

The only documents admissible in Court are documents under the control of the custodian. For example, Obama's Form SS-5 and NUMIDENT can only be submitted to the Court by Obama or the Commissioner of SSA or a Deputy Commissioner of the SSA. Any other document is conjecture and speculation.

Therefore, Federal Court rules dictate a plaintiff makes an allegation in a complaint and the Court assumes the allegation is true. For example, Obama is not eligible because he is not a natural born citizen.

Next, the defendant has an opportunity to request a dismissal for lack of jurisdiction, etc ... If the case is not dismissed, the defendant denies the allegations and discovery begins. Discovery is where the plaintiff obtains witness depositions and certified copies of documents.

In this case, SSA has already stated to the Court they cannot find any documents on Bounel and refuse to provide documents on Obama because it violates his privacy. Consequently, the plaintiff must produce a rebuttal witness to state, in Court, Bounel used the 042 SSN for a real estate transaction. Plaintiff should then demand discovery to corroborate the witness who claims Bounel was originally assigned the 042 SSN. The Plaintiff could subpoena Federal, State (IL, NY, HI, CA) income tax returns and state (IL, NY, HI, CT, and CA) medicaid and medicare documents to prove Bounel was orginally assigned the 042 SSN and used it in the various states where he lived.

This is how it works. It's not like TV or the movies.

[SvenMagnussen]

Moore was not offering evidence in the amicus. Moore proposed an alternative to dismissing the case, i.e. appointing a special prosecutor to conduct a grand jury hearing to subpoena witnesses and gather evidence.

[justiceseeker93]

FYI, there is a "Harry Bounel" listed in the 1940 Census (latest census available to the general public). He was born in Russia and was a naturalized US citizen, and at the time, living in the Bronx, NY. Furthermore, his age at the time of the census was 50, which implies that he was born in 1890 (or perhaps 1889), which is consistent with the 1890 birth date produced by other data bases.

Harrison J. Bounel's SSN was issued in CT in 1977, when he would have been about 87 years old. It is speculated that the SSN may have been applied for by a hospital or nursing home in order to get him or keep him on Medicare, since new rules requiring a SSN for Medicare had just been put into effect at that time.

Of course, it is very possible that Harrison J. Bounel and Harry Bounel were one and the same. He could have came over with the name "Harry" from the old country (some Russian Jewish immigrants did have that given name) and then adopted "Harrison" to use as well as a badge of assimilation, Harrison being the (sur)name of two American presidents. (Changing one's given name only, to the best of my knowledge, did not require a formal legal process.)

[justiceseeker93]

I'm not discussing federal court rules since I'm not litigating the case, and this is not a forum for litigation nor reserved for legal arguments. All I am saying is that your conjectures purportedly concluding that minor Barry was issued an SSN number through a Connecticut based federal foster care contractor lack any support in documented facts and have about the same credibility as the idea that the moon is made up of blue cheese.