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To: Dick Bachert

There is an additional option: Representative apportionment.

Tax each state based on their Senators and Representatives and then allow each state to raise taxes how it will to meet their federal tax assessment.

This of course would require the repeal of the 16th and 17th amendments.


14 posted on 06/04/2013 10:32:48 AM PDT by taxcontrol
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To: taxcontrol

I absolutely agree. The problem is that we have gone so far down the road to socialism that getting back to the Founders’ vision will take much doing (if not another revolution).

Walter Williams’ recent column hit the nail when he said that we DESERVE an aggressive, abusive tax collection agency as it is necessary to force producers to hand over their wealth so that the politicians can hand it to favored groups for their votes at election time.

That said, this discussion of taxes should take a back seat to returning us to the precious metal requirement for “money” imposed by Art.1, Sect.10. But that is a more complex conversation far too many folks can’t get their heads around.


23 posted on 06/04/2013 11:46:22 AM PDT by Dick Bachert (There's room under my bus for BOTH Holder and obozo!)
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To: taxcontrol

For those who argue that it would require an IRS bigger and badder than is now the case (as difficult as that is to imagine!) to collect the FAIR TAX, their argument is BOGUS! 45 states already collect state sales taxes: It would be a relatively simple matter to have the states collect the FAIR TAX as well. The added burden on businesses to collect the FAIR TAX? An extra line on the current state form or as is more likely the case in today’s computerized world a minor software change! Businesses and the states would be compensated for their collection/reporting activities. States not having their own sales tax divisions would have the option of contracting with a neighboring sales tax state to handle collection/reporting functions or the feds would handle the process—admittedly, given recent history with the IRS, the least desirable alternative.

Under the FAIR TAX, the present IRS would be disbanded and a new, much smaller FAIR TAX collection office would be established directly under the Secretary of Treasury. Since this new agency will NOT have to deal with 100 million individual taxpayers and 20 million businesses but only with the 45 to 50 state collection agencies, the entire federal end could be run by a few hundred folks. It might take perhaps 200 field agents (4 per state) to work with the state revenue offices to be certain they aren’t cooking the books or playing games with the fed’s piece of the action + additional for those non sales tax states foolhardy enough to allow the feds to have their way with their businessmen. Perhaps another 100 more in the main office to run the computers and post deposits, make coffee, run out for the donuts, etc.

A number of years ago, California Treasurer Matt Fong determined that something like 10% to 15% of the retail outlets there collected 80% of ALL the sales taxes remitted to California. These were the Big Box stores like Walmart, Target, Home Depot, etc. The remaining 20% came from the small outlets, most of whom would soon be computerized if and when a national sales tax would kick in.

While I understand and agree with the arguments challenging the legality of the 16th Amendment and income taxation, we have sadly gone so far down the road to our current socialist system, there’s no way in our lifetimes we’re going to go back to a purely Constitutional system of state-by-state population apportionment. If that is to happen at all, we’re going to have to creep back toward the Founders’ vision of a tax system they sought to leave us and the progressive left has destroyed to build their Utopian vision of a command society run by – surprise, surprise — them.

Finally, let me deal with the very real concern that the FAIR TAX would quickly be manipulated by rent-seeking lobbyists and their political bedmates: That problem would not be unique to the FAIR TAX. It is why we have the incomprehensible and abusive “tax code” and IRS we suffer with now. That then begs the question of “Why have we allowed it.” I submit that it is a symptom of the disease now threatening ALL our liberties. We allowed it because far too many of us have grown lazy and disinterested in the working of the government and have failed to hold accountable those we put in elected office. The illogical conclusion of that is to do nothing and continue to suffer.

Let me close with a quotation from an earlier time:
“Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; if it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it.” — Judge Learned Hand, 1944


31 posted on 06/04/2013 4:05:04 PM PDT by Dick Bachert (There's room under my bus for BOTH Holder and obozo!)
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