Posted on 05/06/2013 9:44:33 AM PDT by Cold Case Posse Supporter
“Another birther controversy could be brewing for 2016,” MSNBC host Chuck Todd informed on Monday. Though this time aimed at a Republican: Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX), who was born in Canada. While Cruz likely doesn’t face any real eligibility problems, Todd acknowledged, “questions are being asked.”
Snip~
How exactly is “natural-born citizen” defined? Since Cruz’s mother was born in the U.S. and his father became a citizen in 2005, Todd explained, going on to list similar scrutiny faced by President Obama, George Romney, and John McCain.
“The legal evidence seems to side with Cruz,” Todd argued, “but there is a grey area, and that may be all his opponents need.”
“It’s pretty clear that he qualifies as natural born,” Peter Spiro, a professor at Temple University, stated in response to Todd’s earlier question about how the term is defined. To clarify, Todd summed up: “If you are born to U.S. citizens abroad, no matter where, if they are U.S. citizens, if…one of your parents is a U.S. citizen — then that should qualify as natural born.”
(Excerpt) Read more at mediaite.com ...
Since the adoption of the Citizenship Clause of the 14th Amendment in 1868, everybody’s citizenship originates from the Constitution.
“As soon as Mrs. Cruz wrote down that he was an American and go the passport, he was no longer eligible for Canadian citizenship. “
Your source??
Under the Canadian citizenship law revised in 1977, maybe. Under the law of 1946 which was in effect when Cruz was born in 1970, it appears he was born a Canadian citizen. I could be wrong, but want to know the truth. Looking for confirmation, not just opinion.
How did his Cuban father not have any right to Cuban citizenship? That one mystifies me.
That so?
Someone born to citizen parent(s) in a foreign land get their citizenship from the U.S. Constitution?
How about people who immigrate here and go through the naturalization process. They are granted citizenship by the 14th or some other article/amendment in the Constitution?
Neither of those cases has anything to do with Congressional statutes?
That's quit a claim.
The only time a Citizen could become president was ONLY at the time of the adoption of the Constitution until a second generation natural born Citizen was old enough to meet the qualification age requirement and residency specs. That is why the first few presidents ‘grandfathered themselves in as eligible ‘Citizens’ (not natural born Citizens). Cruz as statutory naturalized by federal law as a U.S. citizen. He has a foreign sovereign father and was born in a foreign sovereignty. He IS NOT eligible.
“If he has to renounce his citizenship to any other country, would that not be sufficient proof that he was not NBC?”
I believe you have a winner here. And, you’re right, the verbal gymnastics people are going through trying to prove Obama and/or Cruz and/or Rubio, et al, are natural born is madness.
I showed you where it originated. Twice. But you’re going to keep on ignoring the simple facts of the matter because your mind is made up. Fine by me...we don’t even know if Cruz is going to run.
I am curious, though....do you have any information on where and when “naturalized” Cruz went through this process?
How did his Cuban father not have any right to Cuban citizenship? That one mystifies me.
Citizenship laws of other nations have never had any effect whatsoever on U.S. citizenship laws. If born a U.S. citizen, that person is a U.S. citizen under U.S. law until and if such person renounces his U.S. citizenship.
Accordingly, being eligible for Canadian citizenship...or Cuban citizenship...or Grand Duchy of Fenwick citizenship...has no impact on one's U.S. citizenship.
Period.
“That is why the first few presidents ‘grandfathered themselves in as eligible ‘Citizens’ (not natural born Citizens).”
No.
“1473. It is indispensable, too, that the president should be a natural born citizen of the United States; or a citizen at the adoption of the constitution, and for fourteen years before his election. This permission of a naturalized citizen to become president is an exception from the great fundamental policy of all governments, to exclude foreign influence from their executive councils and duties. It was doubtless introduced (for it has now become by lapse of time merely nominal, and will soon become wholly extinct) out of respect to those distinguished revolutionary patriots, who were born in a foreign land, and yet had entitled themselves to high honours in their adopted country. A positive exclusion of them from the office would have been unjust to their merits, and painful to their sensibilities. But the general propriety of the exclusion of foreigners, in common cases, will scarcely be doubted by any sound statesman.”
Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution 3:§§ 1472—73
http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a2_1_5s2.html
“Joseph Story (September 18, 1779 – September 10, 1845) was an American lawyer and jurist who served on the Supreme Court of the United States from 1811 to 1845. He is most remembered for his opinions in Martin v. Hunter’s Lessee and The Amistad, and especially for his magisterial Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, first published in 1833. Dominating the field in the 19th century, this work is a cornerstone of early American jurisprudence. It is the first comprehensive treatise on the provisions of the U.S. Constitution and remains a critical source of historical information about the forming of the American republic and the early struggles to define its law.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Story
“The founders didn’t define “natural born citizen”, ...”
Because they knew what it meant. They didn’t define “citizen” either, because they knew what it meant. They also didn’t define “amendment”, because they knew what it meant. Etc., etc. ...
“Citizenship laws of other nations have never had any effect whatsoever on U.S. citizenship laws. “
I didn’t say anything about Canadian law having an affect on American citizenship laws. My point is that Cruz was not only an American citizen by US Statute, but also a Canadian Citizen via Canada’s birthright citizenship (i.e., he is a dual citizen - or possibly a tri-citizen as his father was a Cuban citizen.) Therefore, he cannot be a natural born US citizen as he has (had) legal allegiance to one or two other countries.
Still looking for authoritative source that in 1970 a child born of two foreign parents (legal or illegal) was NOT born a Canadian citizen. I’m open to it, I just want to see it from an authoritative source.
You can “Period.” me all you want, but you need to provide some backup for your assertion to have credibility, otherwise, it’s just an opinion. We’re all just exchanging information here - good information, or opinions.
Don’t take my word for it. Take the Supreme Court’s rulings.
Only two types of citizen are recognized.
Elk v Wilkins, 112 U. S. 94 (1884)
“The distinction between citizenship by birth and citizenship by naturalization is clearly marked in the provisions of the Constitution, by which ‘no person, except a natural-born citizen, or a citizen of the United States at the time of the adoption of this constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President;’ and ‘the Congress shall have power to establish an uniform rule of naturalization.’” Const. art. 2, § 1; art. 1, § 8.
“This section [the citizenship clause] contemplates two sources of citizenship, and two sources only: birth and naturalization. The persons declared to be citizens are ‘all persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof.’”
Now if you can find a ruling that there is a third or fourth or fifth category of citizenship other than the two specified in the 14th Amendment, please post it.
“How about people who immigrate here and go through the naturalization process. They are granted citizenship by the 14th or some other article/amendment in the Constitution?”
It can be argued that Cruz’s father threw off any allegiance he may have had by becoming a political refugee/exile. He fought against Batista but became disillusioned and expatriated himself. The Cuba in which he was born no longer existed as a political entity and the one that arose in its place can be said to have had no internationally recognized legal jurisdiction over the senior Cruz, therefore there exists the possibility that neither of Ted Cruz’s parents were under the jurisdiction of some other sovereignty.
Of course, that would still leave the matter of his being born in Canada to resolve. If Canada did not claim jurisdiction over Cruz as a result of his having been born there (some nations do, some nations don’t), and neither of his parents owed any allegiance to a foreign sovereignty, then I’d go so far as to say that he meets the requirements for eligibility.
If it is found, however, that the senior Cruz actually was under the jurisdiction of Cuba at the time of Ted Cruz’s birth, or Canada did claim him as a citizen at birth, then he does not meet the requirements.
Anyone who is claiming that determining natural born citizenship status, for anyone other than those born in the country to two citizen parents, is an easy thing to do, is mistaken. This is the unresolved area of doubt to which Chief Justice Waite referred in Minor v. Happersett. It clearly was not easily resolved then and still isn’t now, because so much depended upon individual circumstance and other claims of jurisdiction that cannot be consistent from one individual to the next.
“Yep, the 14th Amendment provides for naturalization as a way to become a citizen. The other way is to be born a citizen. “All persons born or naturalized...”
Born in the US to one American citizen parent = “citizen” by the 14th Amendment.
Born in the US to two American citizen parents = “natural born citizen” by God.
To repeat: Canadian citizenship laws have no effect whatsoever on American citizenship laws. Cruz was an American citizen from birth. That is a fact not in dispute.
By what authority do you assert he "cannot be a natural born U.S. citizen"?
Watching MSNBC devote considerable time on several shows explaining how the NBC clause will likely be ignored to allow Cruz to become POTUS, it seems increasingly obvious that it is really Barry that MSNBC trying to protect because they have gotten word that the POSSE is coming for Barry’s BC forger and the jig is up. They don’t care about Cruz and given the chance any competent DNC partisan would be screaming Cruz is NOT eligible, absent Barry’s impending vulnerability, IMO.
So if MSNBC has been tipped off by the White House that the POSSE will soon expose the HI BC forgery, now they are trying to preemptively inoculate their audience from concluding that Barry is ineligible if NOT born in the US in spite of the fact that they and the MSM have been saying just that for FIVE YEARS!
You can claim it if you want, but the US Supreme Court, Congress and all 50 states have spent 5 years telling you to blow it out your butt.
The issue was settled legally in 1898. Since then, there has been no legal debate. There wasn’t much before 1898. A ruling in the 1840s by the highest court in New York flat out said the children of aliens, if born in the USA, even if not raised here, were still natural born citizens.
Legally speaking, birthers have no case. None. And now you want to use your ‘laughed out of court’ arguments to prevent a conservative who loves America from running against Hillary Clinton - because as we all know, she is a natural born citizen and thus loves America.
You are mad.
Obama will be exposed people...and they are getting ready to say that he is a NBC through his mother, and it really does not matter that the White House put up a forged Birth Certificate. They will say, he did not know where he was born, and since he never handled the forged document, he can not be responsible...POS!
But I say...the American people will be furious when they learn the truth, and there is also those pesky little matters of the forged selective service card and the stolen SS#.
So, let them try to explain ALL OF THAT!
I will do a dance when all of us so called “birthers” are vindicated.....and say I told you so to all of the annoying people on this site who said, Oh let’s get him out of office on the issues, or let’s vote him out, because eligibility is a waste of time.....well....none of that has worked, and look at all the damage he has done!
Isn’t that something? They’re getting around to admitting that BO was born outside of the U.S. “so it really doesn’t matter” does it? We’re getting closer and closer to the truth about this guy and his handlers are scrambling to do preemptive damage control.
“... telling you to blow it out your butt.”
“... birthers ...”
“...‘laughed out of court’...”
“You are mad.”
Well, now, that really convinced me.
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