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To: SENTINEL
That 230:1 ratio does NOT take into account the shear numbers of force multipliers available to Them. All manor of electronic surveillance. Night vision hardware. Infrared visual surveillance equipment. Body armor and armored vehicles. Grenades of every imaginable variety and yield. Not to mention the best and highest caliber weapons on the planet.

That shrinks the advantage down to quite a small number.

Still, I am not deterred. I'll stand with what is Right.

13 posted on 12/28/2012 12:38:55 PM PST by Bloody Sam Roberts (Liberals are a wrecking crew dismantling civilization by replacing what works with what feels good.)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

Force multiplier is loyalty. I have no doubt our military will not be effective in any internal conflict. Only the bootlicking fags will follow an order to fire on Americans. Every military person I know, I know many, have made it clear they will not follow those orders. As far as deserting or just nullifying orders by doing nothing they are split. Same goes for LEOs. Most will go home to protect the family if SHTF. That leaves the ones out committing suicide as the ones that need to be identified.

Basically there are 80 million armed people in US. Even if only 20% refuse to be disarmed that is still 16 million (I see that number closer to 30+ million). There is no way a door to door confiscation can logistically be effected in 50 states. Look for more of a tax and attrition game plan.


16 posted on 12/28/2012 12:52:00 PM PST by Resolute Conservative
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

Also they have initiative and a concentration of force as decisive points.
How do we find our friends and provide support? If we can organize and react in time, the whole thing will fall apart when they start getting shot at from behind. Or officers start getting cell phone calls from a familiar numbers...


17 posted on 12/28/2012 12:56:31 PM PST by Little Ray (Get back to work. Your urban masters need their EBTs refilled.)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts; Travis McGee; All
That 230:1 ratio does NOT take into account the shear numbers of force multipliers available to Them.

FreeFor has force multipliers, too. We have automated drones with cameras. That's right. You too can have one from Amazon.com for about $300.

We have night vision, too, of varying grades. A simple low-light camera is available for less than $200. Very similar night vision monocles to those the US Military has can be had by private individuals for less than $2000. I have a buddy at work who has one, mostly for feral hog hunting. It is seriously awesome to drive with one with headlights off on a moonless night, not that I would know anything about that :-)

We also have communications force multipliers available to us. Munitions-level encryption is available in a battery-powered internet router, available at your local computer store for less than $100. Buy a few of these, configure them with rotating-key WPA security, and use iPhones or other WiFi-type devices to communicate in your AO through them. If the crypt keys come from a one-time pad, they are unbreakable without capturing the book or whatever we used for a one-time pad. A set of copies of a particular version of a pocket Bible would make an excellent one-time pad: not only are Bibles not common among OpFor, they have thin pages, making for lots of one-time-use encryption keys in a short space.

We have force multipliers. We just have to start inventorying them, and practicing.

26 posted on 12/28/2012 4:09:40 PM PST by backwoods-engineer ("Remember: Evil exists because good men don't kill the gov officials committing it." -- K. Hoffmann)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

Some of us have those toyz too. Heck, some of “them” are “us”.

Further, we have home field advantage and a cause worth dying for.

So no, I don’t think that number changes nearly as much as you might think.


78 posted on 01/02/2013 11:04:02 AM PST by Dead Corpse (Sine ullo desiderio vive et ama.... Carpe diem.)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
That 230:1 ratio does NOT take into account the shear numbers of force multipliers available to Them.

A good percentage of those force multipliers are man-portable these days and will make it into the hands of the "rebels". Anti-armor, anti-aircraft, night-vision, rifle grenades, etc. - all easily smuggled into the hands of waiting ex-military men and women who know how to use them and instruct others.

The initial push-back has to be broad enough and last long enough to permit the oath-keeping faction in the military to make its move.

107 posted on 01/02/2013 1:09:47 PM PST by Charles Martel (Endeavor to persevere...)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
That 230:1 ratio does NOT take into account the shear numbers of force multipliers available to Them. All manor of electronic surveillance. Night vision hardware. Infrared visual surveillance equipment. Body armor and armored vehicles. Grenades of every imaginable variety and yield. Not to mention the best and highest caliber weapons on the planet.

What is most valuable is that there are Oath Keepers who understand how to work this equipment, can train others, and who may (if it comes to that) assist in the capture of such equipment.

The same things which are advantages in some situations are liabilities in others, and any successful insurgent will figure out how to negate the former and emphasize the latter. No system is without its weak points, and looking alike, speaking the same language, etc. will provide the intrepid the ability to negate those advantages.

141 posted on 01/02/2013 10:21:27 PM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts; All

You make an interesting point...

But with that technological, informational, logistical support...

I believe that our side of the equation can and will sustain a campaign against this force, that will be un-sustainable for “them”...

Look at Vietnam...That is still a stinging reminder of how our government was shortsided in how to address such low-tech and un-conventional adversaries for the longest time...And that is NOT to short the efforts by the boots on the ground actually having to deal with the physicalities of such a force against them...They did what they had to do, the best that they could...And I say that to make sure there is no one misunderstanding that I recongnize their sacrifices during that time...

“We” have since learned form that conflict, and many of those folks are still around to apply that knowledge and experience today...

From a purely numbers standpoint, I beleive the numbers Sgt Giles presents is fairly accurate, and I am not going to throw rocks at the data...

But look at it this way...Even if only 3% of that ratio were to effectively fight out of the 230:1 information, that is still a sizable force...

The only damnng thing I can put against us is that the resistance WILL be extremely fragmented, uncoordinated, and spurious in its efforts...At first...But what may be drawn from that initial effort will be others who see this for what it is...

And we all understand that point...It is just that some people have different thresholds of tolerance to tyrrany and the attacks on our liberties and freedoms these days...

The fight CAN and must be taken out of the forces aligned directly against us if it comes to that, and I believe it will be very effective after the gauntlet is finally thrown down...

And whats funny...It won’t be one of “us” that starts this thing...

Just my opinion...

Also...Organizing draws attention...Nothing I have said here is old news, but sometimes it does draw attention...What is important is to know WHO YOU can trust without any reservations when and if this goes down the way they want it too...And the mutual understandings and support from that very small circle of friend(s) needs to be ALL on the same page, without any reservations or hesitation...

Security is paramount for achieving success...But make sure you define success before you set out on this path...

Again, just my opinion...You are NOT alone in your position either...


154 posted on 01/03/2013 8:43:16 AM PST by stevie_d_64 (It's not the color of one's skin that offends people...it's how thin it is.)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

I think quite a few of the force multipliers will be found in the hands of the civilian forces because of armory keys being turned over to them without a fight. Local enforcers will be eliminated one by one as they usually do have to return HOME!I really think they would not want any harm done to loved ones.


162 posted on 01/03/2013 1:53:06 PM PST by Renegade
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts

“That 230:1 ratio does NOT take into account the shear numbers of force multipliers available to Them. All manor of electronic surveillance. Night vision hardware. Infrared visual surveillance equipment. Body armor and armored vehicles. Grenades of every imaginable variety and yield. Not to mention the best and highest caliber weapons on the planet.”

I just downloaded and read an Army Field Manual on Sabotage. You know, for historical purposes... Written for WWII, I think.

Cut down telegraph lines. Stuff like that, that is out of date today.

As I read it, I thought as you have, about electronic surveillance, IR, drones, etc.

On the other hand, the taliban has methods they use against our troops.


164 posted on 01/03/2013 9:55:49 PM PST by Scrambler Bob (Honk Honk - I am the Goose that laid the Golden Eggs - and I have tightened the sphincter! ....)
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