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To: donmeaker
The secession was invalid.

I would disagree. The States were not bound to be in perpetual union to the Constitution, by the Constitution. The Declaration of Independence clearly states that it is the right (and duty) of the people to "to throw off such [Despotic] Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security" when a government becomes tyrannical.

Clearly a government that rejects the right of States, who have voluntarily joined, and which have reserved all rights not expressly given* (which includes withdrawal) must be considered tyrannical. (* Amendment 10)

In pretending to an illegal secession the southern states gained no legitimacy, and they were recognized by no foreign states.

Their secession cannot be held to be illegal without invalidating the central tenant of the Declaration of Independence, to do this destroys the legitimacy of the government from which they were in secession.

In making war against the United States, the state governments were in insurrection, and the acts of such a state government were invalid and illegal.

The United States as in the federal government, or as in the several states? If the former then it cannot be held to be treason, if the latter then it is treason. (The definition for treason contains pluralities, if it meant the federal government then it must be singulars.)

Their insurrection was defeated, and the US territory they temporarily controlled was conquered.

You miss the point entirely: you cannot conquer friendly (your own) territory. You can retake it, or liberate it, but military conquest is fundamentally different.
con·quer - verb (used with object)
1. to acquire by force of arms; win in war: to conquer a foreign land.
2. to overcome by force; subdue: to conquer an enemy.
3. to gain, win, or obtain by effort, personal appeal, etc.: conquer the hearts of his audience.
4. to gain a victory over; surmount; master; overcome: to conquer disease and poverty; to conquer one's fear.

110 posted on 11/03/2012 1:15:49 PM PDT by OneWingedShark (Q: Why am I here? A: To do Justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with my God.)
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To: OneWingedShark

I refer you to your definition 2. to overcome by force; subdue:

The states in insurrection, made war, declared themselves the enemy of the United States, though a domestic kind of enemy, and lost.


113 posted on 11/03/2012 1:23:00 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: OneWingedShark

The perpetual union of the articles of confederation created the people of the United States. The people of the United States did not agree to secession, so such pretended secession in 1861 was not legal. Insurrection pursued with the cover of authority by the illegal pretended insurrection does not make the persons pursuing insurrection less of an enemy. Enemies can be foreign or domestic as stated in the constitution.

The Declaration of Independence explained that the government of England had made war on the colonies, and because of that, the colonies had the right and duty to protect their people by becoming independent states. The Union of those states created the people of the United States.


115 posted on 11/03/2012 1:36:09 PM PDT by donmeaker (Blunderbuss: A short weapon, ... now superceded in civilized countries by more advanced weaponry.)
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To: OneWingedShark

Reading the idiot Donmeaker’s posts is there any wonder why the country is teetering ion the edge of despotism? He is a statist thug.


117 posted on 11/04/2012 4:32:00 AM PST by central_va ( I won't be reconstructed and I do not give a damn.)
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To: OneWingedShark

A variation of my logic. Unionists/socialists want us to believe there is a moral high ground to “freeing the slaves” while at the same time denying southern peoples the right to FREELY determine their own political structure.

It is telling that they cannot or will not see the hypocrisy.


167 posted on 11/05/2012 7:18:27 AM PST by Lee'sGhost (Johnny Rico picked the wrong girl!)
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