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To: Ethan Clive Osgoode

The Soviets were not a Republic - neither were they free.

The concept of separation of Church and State is one that predates Communism - and it was one of our foundational principles as outlined by Madison and Jefferson and its recognition is included within the very first right in the bill of rights.

Funny that creationists not only have to reject science - but now apparently history also.


88 posted on 04/20/2012 7:33:02 AM PDT by allmendream (Tea Party did not send GOP to DC to negotiate the terms of our surrender to socialism)
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To: allmendream
The Soviets were not a Republic - neither were they free.

1935 Consititution of the USSR

ARTICLE 124. In order to ensure to citizens freedom of conscience, the church in the U.S.S.R. is separated from the state, and the school from the church.


90 posted on 04/20/2012 7:38:09 AM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode (<<== Click here to learn about Evolution!)
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To: allmendream
it was one of our foundational principles

Decree of the Soviet of People's Commissars on the Separation of the Church from the State, and of the School from the Church (January 23, 1918):

1. The church is hereby separated from the state.

2. It is unlawful to pass any local law or issue any decree whatsoever within the territory of the Republics, which will restrict or limit the liberty of conscience or grant any advantage or privilege whatsoever to any citizen on the basis of his religious profession.

4. No proceedings of any state or other official public body shall be accompanied by any religious rites or ceremonies whatsoever.

6. No person may refuse to fulfill any civic obligation on the ground of his religious convictions. Exceptions to this rule may be made on the condition that another civic obligation is performed in substitution for the one declined, but this must in each separate case be considered by the People's Court.

7. Religious vows, or oaths, are abolished. Whenever necessary solemn affirmation to tell the truth is made.

8. Registration of births, marriages, deaths, etc., are performed exclusively by the civil authorities and the departments for the registration of marriages and births.

9. The school is hereby separated from the church. The teaching of religious doctrines is not permitted in any state, public, or private educational institution where general educational subjects are taught. Citizens may give or receive religious instructions privately.


91 posted on 04/20/2012 7:45:27 AM PDT by Ethan Clive Osgoode (<<== Click here to learn about Evolution!)
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To: allmendream
The concept of separation of Church and State is one that predates Communism - and it was one of our foundational principles as outlined by Madison and Jefferson and its recognition is included within the very first right in the bill of rights.

Wow! You would agree that it is important to know the truth about this important issue. As you know the phrase "separation of church and state" is not enshrined in the Establishment clause. Likewise the word "church" nor the word "state" are contained therein. The publics' often misunderstanding of the first amendment has been molded by the Court's often-repeated usage of the phrase. The fact that all of the original 13 States which were signatories to the Constitution had state constitutions which prescribed Bible reading, Old and New Testaments, and were obliged to take an oath, for example in Delaware, Article 22 says, "Every member who shall be chosen a member to either House or appointed to any office or place of trust shall make and subscribe to the following declartion, to wit: "I ______do profess faith in God the FAther, and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, and in the HOly Ghost, one God blessed for evermore; and I do acknowledge the holy scripture of the Old and New Testatment to be give by divine inspiration." A similar statement was given in each state. This was extant political reality in the day of the writing of our Constitution and was likewise in each state. These men were sent to the Constitutional Convention.

A strong proof that the First Amendment was never intended to separate Christianity from public affairs came in the form of legislation approved by the same Congress which created the First Amendment That legislation, originally entitledl "An Ordinance for the Government of teh Territory of the United States, Northwest of the River Ohio" and later shortened to the "Northwest Ordinance" provided the procedure and requirements whereby territories could attin statehood in the newly United States. After all, there were thousands of Americans in the wilderness and the western territories facross the Ohio River. Article III of this Ordinance said, ""Religion, morality, and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind_____________________shall forevermore be encouraged".

In the United States, the origin of the phrase, "Separation of Church and State" was written by Jefferson in response to a concern put to Jefferson from the Danbury Baptist church, from Danbury, Conneticutt. On Jan.1, 1802 Jefferson wrote to the Danbury Baptists and said, "I contemplate with solemn reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting the establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State. This phrase was not recorded in the Constitutional Convention in any of the recordings.

As one Freeper told you, Article 52 of the Constitution of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics says: "The churh in the USSR is separated from the state, and the school from the church."

187 posted on 05/02/2012 7:04:34 PM PDT by Texas Songwriter (Ia)
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