As shown by your own evidence, the Dover decision did not rule on the scientific merits of “ID!”
"By “not being forthright” you mean lying repeatedly? Amazing what acts people will justify if they think they are doing “the Lord's work” - but who again is the Father of Lies? Whose work did they do when they lied on the stand? They knew they had to lie - because they had become the servant of lies."
One only has to look at the video of what the Kitzmiller lawyers presented, they took the remarks of the 2 out of context. The two tried to explain the remarks but it was not allowed. If what they explained was allowed they would have stood a chance, only the cut video was allowed. What the two were not forthright about was they did not tell their own lawyers about the video. And as for you quoting the Bible; aren't you the one that believes in separation of church and state hypocrite?
As for Newton and Faraday, let's see you source first person on this one.
"Thomas Jefferson and James Madison were Communists?"
They believed in a “Wall of separation” and “a perfect separation” (respectively) of Church and State - and Madison wrote the 1st Amendment based upon that belief and the Statute of Religious Freedom written by Jefferson."
They in no way believed the way you do. They believed that it was one way; that the church had every right to be involved in law and in any state of affairs. Get your facts right.
"The way science wins is in the real world of ideas."
Nope, the only way Evos win is by way of the court and the communist law of separation of church and state on Americans that goes one way; that government can influence and not the church. So you go against what Jefferson and Madison wrote
I am not the State or an employee of the State discharging official duties, as such I can quote the Bible any time I wish. Do you truly believe that anybody who accepts separation of Church and State should never be able to quote the Bible without displaying hypocrisy - or are you just being ignorant?
As for Newton and Faraday - can you name a single contribution they made to science that included ascribing supernatural causation to explain natural phenomena? Where did they work God into their equations?
Science wins in the real world of ideas. Creationism is useless. Only other creationists will pay you to be a creationist - nobody else is interested because it has ZERO practical applications.
As to Madison and Jefferson - your ignorance of their views no doubt will reflect your ignorance of the decision of Dover - even when shown you are wrong - you will insist you are right.
Here is what Madison said about the insidious nature of religious involvement with the State and their tendency to encroach upon the government (the second side of the wall - it wasn't a one way wall - it was, according to Madison, to be a PERFECT separation) ......
“An alliance or coalition between Government and religion cannot be too carefully guarded against......Every new and successful example therefore of a PERFECT SEPARATION between ecclesiastical and civil matters is of importance........religion and government will exist in greater purity, without (rather) than with the aid of government. [James Madison in a letter to Livingston, 1822, from Leonard W. Levy- The Establishment Clause, Religion and the First Amendment,pg 124]
What influence, in fact, have ecclesiastical establishments had on society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the civil authority; on many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny; in no instance have they been the guardians of the liberties of the people. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not. [Pres. James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance, addressed to the General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Virginia, 1785]
Experience witnesseth that ecclesiastical establishments, instead of maintaining the purity and efficacy of religion, have had a contrary operation. During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution. [James Madison, A Memorial and Remonstrance, addressed to the General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Virginia, 1785]
It was the Universal opinion of the Century preceding the last, that Civil Government could not stand without the prop of a religious establishment; and that the Christian religion itself, would perish if not supported by the legal provision for its clergy. The experience of Virginia conspiciously corroboates the disproof of both opinions. The Civil Government, tho’ bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability and performs its functions with complete success; whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people have been manifestly increased by the TOTAL SEPARATION OF THE CHURCH FROM THE STATE. [James Madison, as quoted in Robert L. Maddox: Separation of Church and State; Guarantor of Religious Freeedom]
Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion & Govt in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history [ttempts where religious bodies had already tried to encroach on the government]. [James Madison, Detached Memoranda, 1820]