Posted on 02/10/2012 9:16:22 AM PST by Superstu321
There are two kinds of libertarians; sincere believers in liberty, and dopers who want to shoot up legally.
Close enough...
A sincere belief in liberty presupposes that you must allow libertines who might glom on to your movement to hurt themselves without intervention. Freedom comes with costs that too few are willing to pay.
This tolerance ends when those same people start hurting others or their property in their quest for self destruction.
Capital L libertarians (nut jobs) and small l libertarians........ the small l libertarians are the true liberty strict constitutionalists...we are closer to conservatives than the mainstream republicans are..
Where is the difference?
Trick is, sincere belief in liberty includes belief in the liberty of dopers to shoot up.
Don’t neglect the third kind: sincere dopers who believe in liberty...
That definition works for me, and I’ve become pretty much a small l. LIke Santorum told Ron Paul (paraphrasing) “I don’t believe in “no government” and just vote no on everything like you do, I believe in small government that only does what the constitutions says it should do”.
To the extent that libertarianism stands for getting gov’t out of our lives, I think most conservatives support that.
sincere dopers who believe in liberty... and open borders
Art 1 Sec 8 is a short list... Anything not EXPLICITLY on it should get the Axe.
Then we can talk about some of the State’s stupidity...
Not “no government”, just the LIMITED government outlined in the Constitution.
Borders are relatively open now. Property owners, in a more libertarian world, would have a lot more Rights/resources to protect their land than they currently do.
Get rid of the entitlement/wealth redistribution crap we give illegals now and the ones still coming here are the ones who want to BE Americans...
Nicely phrased. I consider myself a libertarian at heart. I like the benefits of a modern society; but would like to live much the same way I would if I were on a deserted island.
Drugs, never had much interst in them - I need my mind to earn a living. But, that said, I will not raise a finger to stop anyone else from using/abusing or even over-dosing on them. If they want to kill themselves, all I ask is that they do it such that they don't kill an innocent on their way to their maker.
I vote Republican, lean heavily libertarian and always have. I don’t think we should concern ourselves with what adults do as long as they aren’t committing crimes-stay stoned and lose your job? Too bad-someone else will do that job and stay sober. Addicted? Pay your insurance co-pay for rehab ONE time-if it happens again, you pay the whole cost. Drive stoned/drunk? Go to jail. If you keep it up, you won’t last that long anyway-problem over.
Nothing trumps common sense and personal responsibility, nor should it-just leave people the hell alone-we do not all have to agree, for God’s sake. And leave issues like homosexual marriage, abortion, etc to the states, where the voters decide-not a bunch of tyrants in robes like the 9th circus did.
Yup, a libertarian believes you are free to shoot up - anything you want, anytime you want.
What's the difference between a Libertarian who doesn't care if someone shots up, and a Conservative who doesn't care if someone drinks themselves into oblivion? They are both killing themselves - we both agree they have the 'right' to kill themselves. You seem to indicate that the 'medium' in which they kill themselves is important. A libertarian doesn't care what 'medium' they use; it's the philopshy that we each are responsible to make our own choices, that is important. I chose not to take drugs, this is my informed, adult and rationalized decision. You are free to do whatever you wish (with minimal criteria attached - adult, not killing innocents, children, etc).
“This tolerance ends when those same people start hurting others or their property in their quest for self destruction.”
Just so-everyone is responsible for their actions-f*** with someone else and you go to jail, get fined, etc-that is, if you are lucky enough to survive your intended victim’s ire...
Trick is, sincere belief in liberty includes belief in the liberty of dopers to shoot up.
What's the difference between a Libertarian who doesn't care if someone shots up, and a Conservative who doesn't care if someone drinks themselves into oblivion? They are both killing themselves - we both agree they have the 'right' to kill themselves. You seem to indicate that the 'medium' in which they kill themselves is important
Not me - I was just making sure that the "two kinds of libertarians" statement didn't wind up as cover for excluding substance use from the definition of liberty.
If I want to have an equal say about what types of behavior are harmful to myself or family there are many libertarians who want to deny me this right.
I have the right to represntation on issues whereas I feel the behavior of others is harmful to myself or my family. Many libertarians act as if they know better and want to deny you this right claiming that you need to have some sort of absolute proof that someones actions are directly harmful annd that all arguments that use a causation approach to showing the harm are not allowed to be used.
Libertarians are in many ways anti-liberty in my opinion and want to force others to live in a state of anarchy.
Libertarians have a simple solution for just about every social, economic and political problem: legalize it.
But their utilitarian approach to problem-solving is neither rule nor act utilitarianism: If a problem comes around, they whip it by saying, “Let’s pretend it really isn’t a problem. If we make it legal, then it goes away.”
Stroke of the pen, law of the land. Pretty cool, huh? Sure, if you’re into OA-style anarchy.
http://reason.com/archives/2010/05/31/legalize-immigration
“anarchy” GMTA.
Go Burke. Go play in the sandbox, Gillespie.
Exactly so.
There are no excuses in a libertarian society. No “de debbil made me do it”, “it was the alcohol made me do it”, “crack be whack and I can’t stay off the rock”...
Tough. The information is out there. If you STILL make bad decisions, why do the rest of us need to suffer for it? Why do OUR liberties need to be curtailed because YOU can’t handle your life responsibly?
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