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To: Matchett-PI

Whoa! In no way am I talking about collectivism in the communist or socialist realm! Good grief!

Christ fulfilled the old covenant with his sacrifice and established the new convenant based grace. Of course He did!

My only point, which is being misunderstood I think, is that God can and does cause good things to happen for nations that honor Him. Conversely, nations that spit in his face likewise suffer the consequences. This has nothing to do with “collective salvation” at all. It is a simple point.


77 posted on 02/07/2012 1:18:16 PM PST by WXRGina (Further up and further in!)
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To: WXRGina; Mind-numbed Robot; betty boop
"...God can and does cause good things to happen for nations that honor Him. Conversely, nations that spit in his face likewise suffer the consequences. .."

“Behind the rational sequence of political and economic cause and effect, hidden spiritual forces are at work which confer on events a wholly new significance. The real meaning of history is something entirely different from that which the human actors in the historical drama themselves intend or believe.”

"I think of Mordecai's words to Esther, "And who knows whether you have not come to the kingdom for such a time as this?" It is only in the crisis point that we see these extraordinary people arise. 'You only get one Moses, one Socrates, one Washington, one Lincoln, one Churchill.' One of my favorite examples is Patton who seemed to be a key that fit only one lock. He does his job and then is gone. "

".....If history were nothing more than the recording and accumulation of facts, it would be of no use to us. Detail alone does not constitute history, any more than randomly played notes constitute harmony and melody. Only by knowing what history is for can we know what is of importance in history. Since history as it happens consists of unique and unrepeatable events, it is unintelligible unless bound into a larger scheme of order."

"...I find it useful to consider history as having a “day” aspect and a “night” aspect.

For example, that ABC movie of several years back, The Path to 9/11, offered us a retrospective glimpse into the night time of history between the two Twin Tower attacks of 1993 and 2001. Although few people noticed at the time, it was during the sleepy Clinton administration that sinister events were incubating in the night time womb of history.

History, according to Tomberg, “is not to be understood as something which plays itself out on one level, but must be comprehended also in its dimension of height and depth.” Furthermore, “the key concepts for understanding the night aspect of history are ‘degeneration’ and ‘regeneration.’

Degeneration involves a gradual, step-by-step descent from a higher level, while regeneration is the opposite: re-ascent to a higher level.

This is why, both personally and collectively, in the absence of periodic “booster shots” from above ( ), things will simply degenerate below. Our much-rumored fall didn't just happen once upon a timeless, but is repeated by each generation, and even on a moment-by-moment basis. There is no reason to place one's faith in spiritually amputated man, to put it mildly.

These periodic booster shots often enter history like depth charges from above. History records the existence of celestial emissaries charged with a divine mission __to regenerate a spiritually exhausted mankind__. Subtract these relatively few luminaries from history, and it becomes a dark place indeed. You only get one Moses, one Socrates, one Washington, one Lincoln, one Churchill.

As Tomberg puts it, “All movements of a social, political, artistic, intellectual, and religious kind may indeed have different speeds of devolution, but one thing they have in common: if no reinforcing impulse is given after a certain time, they will inevitably exhaust themselves. A thing of motion or or of life becomes a corpse unless 'reawakening impulses' intervene.” .....

....History is a circle, but it is an open circle, or spiral. However, it can only maintain the upward spiral -- i.e., Progress -- if it is specifically oriented to the finality of spiritual ideals that are not located in the field of time. These revivifying impulses from above eventually exhaust themselves unless human beings keep them alive and embody their cosmic role of co-Creator, or bridge between Heaven and Earth. ...."

*****

"All our destinies are interwoven; and until the last of us has lived, the significance of the first cannot finally be clear." --Hans Urs von Balthasar

HERE

79 posted on 02/07/2012 10:00:31 PM PST by Matchett-PI ("One party will generally represent the envied, the other the envious. Guess which ones." ~GagdadBob)
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