Posted on 01/05/2012 1:02:54 PM PST by Red Steel
PA-RIVER, I understood that 11081 was a fake number, assigned to Virginia later to cover up the switch, not her real number. But the real number was the one that initially appeared on Obama’s birth certificate. And that was 10641.
If 10641 was not Virginia’s number then it must belong to some other person. And this other person must have been born after the Nordyke twins, because it’s a later number. Or am I confused?
It is possible that Virginia had two BC’s.
One from the first hospital, one from the second.
After they filed the first, they realized they had it wrong and filed the second?
Or, maybe her death caused some delay. Autopsy and DC. Anyone who dies in a hospital gets an autopsy?
The microfilm would tell.
Maybe O was adopted and became an Indonesian citizen, and that caused his BC to get permanently sealed. Maybe he has a long form, but its not allowed to be seen because he's an Indonesian citizen and deserves that privacy that Indonesian citizens have come to expect.
The only explanation I can find is that HDOH was not following procedures when stamping the Certificate number and dates. If they got two BC’s for same kid, same day, two hospitals, and then a DC, it may have thrown them for a loop and caused procedures to break down. Eventually they just pushed it all through to get it off the desk, yet all screwed up.
DC was received at HDOH from second Hospital before BC was received from first hospital. No BC is sent from second hospital.
DC is filed. HDOH sends Request to 2nd hospital for the BC.
They then receive BC from First Hospital, stamp it 10641. But they Must back date it, because it is greater than DC file date. This is the one instance where back dating would be logical and probably required.
Three weeks later, Second hospital submits a BC after the request is bounced from desk to desk at the hospital. It is stamped 11080. It is also back dated to precede the DC.
Thank you for your conjectures. Food for thought!
The above is from Dean Haskins. He commented that the birth number was hand written. Not sure of that is significant or not.
Where is that image from?
I was thinking....Because the child died one day after birth, is it possible that the BC was not processed, (numbered), until the date on the DC? That would account for a higher number....
Hmm. An 8pm death on Aug 5 doesn’t exactly match the story that Clara gave, IIRC. The name was changed on 8/29/61. That doesn’t make sense either, unless they also changed the name on the birth certificate. I thought Clara had said they had not changed any name on a birth certificate. It was a long time ago and she’s elderly but if the name was wrong on the birth certificate they would have needed the parents to do something to change it.
Do you know when they processed the death certificate? Especially before or after they processed the birth certificate?
If the HDOH gave Duncan a copy of the original death certificate then it blows out of the water any reason they might give for withholding a copy of the original birth certificate.
That serial stamp on the death certificate seems weird. And the 151 must not mean it’s a birth certificate; it must mean something else.
That’s where seeing the long-form would be important. It would tell when the BC was ACCEPTED by the state registrar - which is the date that the number was given.
I should see what Haskins has up about this. I’m wondering if the birth certificate was sent along with Virginia to Kapiolani which then submitted it to the HDOH, or whether Wahiawa completed the BC and sent it to the HDOH.
I do not know when they processed the DC but it just looks like to me that the person who did process the DC went looking for the BC to write the correct BC number on the DC. He or she finds that it does not have a number yet or was not even in existence. Because you can’t go back in time to retrieve a number that has already been assigned you are stuck recording the next available number.
Goes like this. The mother gives birth. There is an apparent problem with the health of the baby. She is rushed to Kapiolani where she dies the following day. The mother is grief stricken and does not sign the BC until sometime after the baby has been buried. She then signs the BC and it is pre-dated as if she signed it when she was supposed to. It is then that she discovers the wrong name. The name is corrected on the BC and the DC at same time.
Haskins says the BC was processed the day before the Nordykes’, so it was processed on Aug 10th - 18 days before the name was changed on the death certificate.
The death certificate could take longer to complete because there could be autopsy results required and the name discrepancy could have caused a delay in matching it with a birth certificate. I wonder what the filing/acceptance date for the death certificate is.
I’m looking at my daughter’s certificate of fetal death and see that it was signed by the delivering doctor on Thursday, 1-21-93, which is 8 days after she was stillborn, and filed by the state registrar the following Monday, on Jan 25, 1993. Because she was stillborn there was no certificate of live birth so they didn’t have anything to match up that way. The doctor probably waited for the results of the autopsy before signing the death certificate. Wasn’t able to put a cause of death because we never found out the cause.
The hospital handles the job of gathering signatures. The mom just does what she’s told. Virginia was not buried until mid-September, IIRC. The law required that births be reported within a week so they would not have waited a couple weeks to get her signature. Hospital stays were longer then, and I’m sure they got her signature while she was at the hospital so she wouldn’t have those technical things cutting into her grieving time at home.
Probably Wahiawa handled the birth certificate, which would be processed separately from the death certificate.
I have three children and four grand daughters. Even with three children and four grand children I cannot fathom what you have gone through, I can only imagine. God bless you for sticking with this. It is hard enough for me I can’t imagine how hard it is for you.
I was at the birth of my last grand daughter and two days after the birth a hospital worker came in with all the paper work for the parents to sign, just before release actually. The certificate of live birth was already signed and dated by the doctor. So I am thinking that VS’s mom just didn’t sign anything until sometime later. It seems perfectly logical that the mother left the hospital without signing the COLB that the hospital just sent it to DOH anyway. They do their thing, “process it”, but have to wait for the mom to come in and sign it and do not record a number.
You are correct the LF would be helpful.
Here’s what we do know . . .
The BC would not have been transferred with Virginia to Kapi’olani, as Clara was not transferred with Virginia. The BC was signed by both mother and delivery doctor, so it would have been done at Wahiawa General and then sent to DOH. The DC would have been sent by Kapi’olani.
By law, the DC had to be processed within 3 days, and the BC had to be processed within 7 days.
All processing was done at the DOH in Honolulu—all numbers and dates are assigned there.
Dean Haskins
I just answered my own question. He is Dean.
Boy, there seem to be a lot more suits being filed. Is anyone or any website tracking these in an easy to read listing, and/or etc.? Obama must have increased the size of his legal team and expenses, I would think, to deal with the burgeoning number. Anyone have anything on this?
Signing the paperwork right before release from the hospital is standard procedure. The hospitals have employees whose only or main job is to make sure they have the paperwork handled before the patient leaves. In Hawaii the law says that the hospital is in charge of properly submitting the birth certificate and they are to do it within a week of the birth.
It’s routine procedure regardless of the outcome of the delivery. Just like giving the pills to make sure the grieving mom doesn’t lactate or signing an agreement for an autopsy. Or having the nurses leave you to go tend the crying baby down the hall, or the mother in labor with a live baby. Sitting alone in the hospital while your husband arranges the funeral. It all seems cold at the time, but it has to be done at the right time or else there will be more sorrow later. The mom is numb anyway; they tell her to sign, she signs. At that point everything is just doing what you have to do to get through it. You go home and take down the crib, try to figure out what to do with all the baby blankets that your friends and family gave you. The tiny diapers. And get ready for the letters from formula companies congratulating you on your baby’s birth, wondering if you want coupons for their products.
Thanks for your warm thoughts. This stuff really does bring back a lot of painful memories. I’m always weepy this time of the year anyway. I wish I could give Clara and Duncan a great big hug. I think for anybody who’s been through it, every time we hear of someone else’s loss it makes us relive those wounds.
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