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Posted on 01/02/2012 8:02:48 AM PST by SeekAndFind
“I had forgotten about FDR cutting off the oil to Japan. I guess that does make this a similar situation.”
You have earned your nickname. This is NOT a “similar situation” as we are not actively using that oil to plunder and wage war against nations like Japan was doing to China when the western nations denied Japan military vital raw materials to continue waging war.
You need to study history.
John Rabe, the top-ranking Nazi liaison to the Imperial Japanese government, was so appalled by what he saw that he personally wrote a letter to Adolf F*CKING for intervention on HUMANITARIAN grounds.
Learn some more history before you completely discredit yourself.
You invade the Anglo-Dutch colonies in Indonesia/Malaysia, and seize their oil, rubber, tin and rice. Of course the US will go to war if you do that. So you first launch what you hope is a knock out blow at the US Pacific Fleet in Pearl Harbor.
Did I say that? I said that that when you put another country in a position where its political leadership has to either 1. publicly give in to your demands, which will undoubtedly cost them their careers, and in 1941 Japan very possibly their lives, or 2. go to war, you really ought to be very prepared for the other guy choose what is behind curtain number 2. Even if you think, correctly that in the long wrong run, it will be a disastrous choice. In the short term, expanding the war made the War Party leadership heroes in Japan. Short term thinking is very popular with politicians in a fix.
Wow! I make an innocent comment and grey_whiskers, rmlew, and Code Toad come out of the jungle like jackals on the attack. I simply asked Venturer what corner the Japanese were backed into prior to WWII and Pilsner answered about the embargo on supplies to which I replied that perhaps there are similarities between that and the sanctions against Iran presently. Then Pilsner and I get blasted and I am called ignorant of history. How did Venturer escape your wrath? He started the whole mess. :-)
You guys apparently overlooked my post #14 in your eagerness to label me as a dunce. grey_whiskers, since I have admired and complemented you on your posts on other threads I expected more from you. I guess I am as ignorant of people as I am history.
Correction: The book I mentioned is authored by Thomas Fleming, not Thomas Freeman. There is another good book about that era titled Brute. It is about a remarkable man named Victor Krulak who was only 5’4”, 120 pounds, and he would have become the Commandant of the Marine Corps but for LBJ’s ego and vindictiveness. His third son, Charles C. Krulak did become Commandant, 1995-1999, his first son, Victor, Jr., was a Commander and Chaplain in the Navy and his other son was a Lt. Col. and Medic/Chaplain in the Marine Corps.
Although I was a child I lived through WWII and had several family members in the Army and Marines. News of and interest in the war was thick around my house. I do know a little bit about that time despite your opinions.
Some of us have read “Day of Deceit” and “The New Dealer’s War” and think the authors are blinded by ideology and cherry pick facts and misconstrue others to fabricate support for a position.
I don’t mind takeing the blame , but actually if you read the first sentence in the article that is where it started I quote:
“As expected yesterday, when the US went out full bore with a Japan approach of McCollum-like strategy of leaving Iran no option but to keep escalating until finally the US has enough public support grounds for a response,”
Actually Pilsner gave a good synopsis of my own opinion, and I saw nothing nasty in his Post. He was trying to be informative. That’s what these Posts are about opinions.
I hadn’t answered your Post because I figured it would pass and I didnt want to spend an evening going back and forth about differing opinions.
Japan was a belligerent nation in Asia just as Germany was belligerent in Europe. Roosevelt wanted in the European war so bad he could taste it and did many things illegally in order to enable England and Russia to survive until he got in He also squeezed Japan. Now I have no problem with his doing that nor with our entry into those wars, but to deny he put the squeeze on Japan, IMO is wrong.
To be squeezing Japan and not paying attention as their Navy dissappeared for a week, and aftercwarnings by Billy Mitchell and others of Pearl Harbor and it’s weakness was either terribly reckless or done on purpose.
I guess that will start another argument over opinions.
I understood what you were saying. I drug you into the mud only because Pilsner and I were misunderstood and pilloried by others.
You have been here since 1998, you should be used to getting pilloried and Misunderstood by now. LOL.
I'm sorry that I offended you, MNR.
But merely describing what Japan did in China as "invading" is a gross mis-statement: the Japanese got their start on crimes against humanity in WW II long before the Nazis did.
(That being said, it should be noted that international standards have *fallen* since then. Look at the genocides in Rwanda and atrocities elsewhere in Africa, and all that happens is that pop stars record a hit song so they can say "they made a difference"...) Not to mention CNN playing Walter Duranty to Sadaam Hussein's Stalin, in order to maintain coverage rights in Iraq. Will future generations throw rocks at us for allowing these things to go unchallenged?
...and speaking of "unchallenged", you are quite right about Venturer. So let me respond to him as well:
You dipwad, you done and gone and went and made me flame the wrong person and get all into trouble.
Please note that Japan committed atrocities so beyond the pale in Nanking, that John Rabe (a Nazi party member during the sack of the city) ended up writing personally to ADOLPH HITLER on grounds for help, and got arrested by the Gestapo for his trouble.
Methinks Japan did a hell of a lot to deserve what they got.
(BTW, to both of you. When the the Flying Tigers start in Burma?)
g_w
I never made you flame anyone you did a good job of that all on your own.
I see you are sorry for offending MNR, but you don’t mind tossing a sh*t sandwich my way.
No problem,,I am used to it.
And Yes we all read the Rape of Nan King.
The extra-folksy language on my part was an attempt at humor, following on MNR's pointing at your origination of the controversial topic.
I'm having a bad thread. I'll just stop digging.
Cheers!
Like I said, it’s no problem. I am used to it.
LOL.
I think you recovered well. At least well enough for an ignorant old man.
:-)
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