The 9-9-9 Controversy.

The Silent Majority ^ | 10-19-11 | Southernman

[Lexluthor69]

During the Republican presidential debate in Las Vegas candidates once again attacked Herman Cain on his 9-9-9 plan. One bone of contention that stood out was the issue of state taxes.

The other candidates, Mitt Romney in particular, made a point to note that Cains plan would add taxes in addition to state taxes (the following quotes were taken from a CNN article you can find HERE) :

Romney said Cain’s plan would add federal taxes on top of state taxes.

That is absolutely true but somewhat misleading. No candidate has proposed a plan that eliminates state taxes. The truth is state taxes are not under the purview of the federal government to begin with.

States can levy sales taxes, property taxes and income taxes in addition to any federal tax. For Romney and others to intimate otherwise is disingenuous.

What Cains plan attempts to do is simplify the tax code and remove the bureaucracy that supports it. By doing so he will effectively limit the governments power to use the tax code to punish and reward individuals and companies. Cain alludes to this in one of his responses during debate:

“The reason my plan is being attacked so much is the lobbyists accountants and politicians, they don’t want to throw out current tax code and replace with something that’s simple and fair,” Cain responded.

Newt Gingrich did make a valid point however when he said:

“There are much more complexities than Herman let’s on,” said former House Speaker Newt Gingrich.

There is no doubt that some unintended consequences could arise if the plan is not carefully studied and a strategy developed far in advance of its implementation. This does not mean that Cain’s plan is unworthy of discussion.

[The Sparrow]

my post was in response to #55.

[Average Al]

Cain has shot himself in the head with his 999 plan. If he had proposed a flat tax it would have been another story.
Nobody is going to go in to ballot box and vote for this massive federal sales tax on top of their state and local sales taxes with the hope their other federal taxes are going to go away and offset this massive daily tax.

[MNJohnnie]

When a Tax Lawyer like Bachmann throws out the VAT term she disqualifies herself from serious consideration. She knows full well the VAT and the 9-9-9 tax are completely different things.

A VAT is a hidden tax that taxes every level of production and then is hidden inside the cost of goods thus making business the tax collecting cut out for Government. 9-9-9 taxes once at the final point of sale and is an transparent add on showing he payer how much tax they paid.

This continual attempt to obfuscate the real details of the 9-9-9 plan by manufacturing a fraudulent link to a European VAT raises questions about Bachmann’s intellectual honesty and credibility.

If she cannot get even the most basic details of 9-9-9 correct, what else is she misleading us about?

[MNJohnnie]

Sure Al, which is why Cain is surging in the polls.

Sorry your feelings are hurt because Cain is kicking your candidate of choice butt. But stop confusing your feelings for facts.

[going hot]

You sound like a perfect lib class envy promoter jealous loser. Your points are once again, without basis or foundation.

gasoline is high because the owners can earn so much per day?

Your very post pretty much sums up what and how you think, it really does not need rebuttal..

My original point regards your premises stands.

Carry on.

[Average Al]

We’ll see who is viewing Cain’s chances with just feelings.

[MNJohnnie]

Don't waste your time with TC, he would rather keep repeating his ignorant propaganda then learn anything. He been cutting and pasting this fraudulent propaganda of his for weeks. He never bothers to learn any facts that challenge his dogmas.

Ask him to provide sources for the "facts" he cites.

[JIM O]

Sure. Cain is just beginning to build his forces basically because he has not had the money. One example is that currently in New Hampsire which is a critical state he has 3 paid employees. Hopefully his recent support will enable him to strengthen.

[MNJohnnie]

The tax policy center, which is not partisan

The Tax Policy Center is a paid propaganda outlet for the Progressive Bookings Institute and the Urban Institute. It is a Democrat party front group, it is NOT “non partisan” as TC claims.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/aboutus/index.cfm

[going hot]

It is not ignorant propaganda.

Either one or the other.

Either he truly is ignorant, and needs to bone up on capitalism and a free market structure, or he is in fact here only to push the liberal class envy class warefare, which is all they have left in their dpleted quiver.

[justsaynomore]

So your statement meant he didn’t have an impressive organization in terms of size, then. I thought you were criticizing their competency and I was going to say that given how few folks he had they have been VERY competent to get him where he is. Plus the 100,000+ volunteers.

I hear he is now raising $1 million a week. He’s getting solid endorsements too

[norwaypinesavage]

What most of the doubters seem to be missing is that the 999 Plan REPLACES current taxes. It is NOT an addition to current taxes.

Lets say that today a single mom goes to the grocery store and pays $2.00 to buy a loaf of bread, and under the 999 Plan she pays $1.97. Even though she will have paid a 9% federal sales tax, in addition to whatever state sales tax she paid, she still PAYS LESS. You can call that a tax increase, if you want, but she still PAYS LESS.

[JIM O]

Time is critical, last night in my opinion 999 came off as somewhat ilconcieved. Big money will be spent to derail him and it as was evident last night. I personally think there are major problems with the plan however agree with the premise.

I have no doubt with the right team that plugs the holes in the plan and although a tough sell it can get the support of a GOP majority in both houses. Cains recent support coupled with a 1st or second place finish in NH will open the flood gates with campaign funding. Time is short and now that the possibility of a December 6 primary date in NH exists, timing becomes even more critical.

[federal__reserve]

Ebay has millions of used goods for sale which you can buy at a fraction of a price for new. Every item is rated and described for it’s condition. If the item is not exactly as described, Ebay will stand behind you to get the refund.

I have bought over 100 items on Ebay, both new and used and never had a problem, except one $2 electronic item bought from a vendor in Hong Kong.

[TruConservative]

As I say, I am very depressed. I think we are all suckers.

I watched the X-factor last night. Two of the "over 30" group came up for review. One guy says he works 5 jobs to support his wife and kids. He leaves at 7:00am and gets home some nights at 2:00 am. Another guy says his house is going to be foreclosed if he doesn't get this chance. Both guys perform in front of a very pretty little girl (I don't know her, but I'm sure she's talented) at her mansion high on the California cliffs over looking the ocean.

She fires them both. They go home eyes watering, one to his multiple jobs, the other to lose his home. She goes home to snort some cocaine, and drive her Maserati to an all night party.

That's America today, and it's sick. We cannot continue in this manner and be a thriving country. And burying your heads in the sand and being suckers is not going to help.

We cannot thrive as a communist nation, and that is what we are turning into. An evolved, modern, Chinese-style communist nation. Where a handful of people do all the planning and make all the money, and workers are helpless, powerless, drones happy to work long hours for little pay and no chance of retirement.

I've shown this before. This factory is in China. It builds a lot of the stuff we buy. It's profits go to many Americans, like the Walmart family, who gets most of their goods from here (or similar Chinese factories). It's profits goes to people like the co-founder of Home Depot, who is one of Romney's biggest donors. These are the American jobs outsourced by our version of billionaire communists to Chinese billionaire communists.

It is the utmost irony and triumph of modern communism that those of us who argue against this system are called "liberal" or "socialist." Those who argue in favor of this system of unlimited corporate greed, out sourcing to factories like this, the enrichment of Chinese billionaires, no regulation limitations on resorting to factories like these, are not conservatives .

[TruConservative]

“You sound like a perfect lib class envy promoter jealous loser.”

And you sound like a sucker.

“gasoline is high because the owners can earn so much per day?”

Do the math. The Koh brother increased their wealth by $18b over the last 4 years, when most of us were losing wealth. That works out to $10m/day. Where do you think that money came from? A magic money bush? Don’t be stupid. It came from the price of gasoline. Everytime you buy a gallon of gasoline, your money goes to the companies that drill, refine, and sell gasoline. Sure, some goes to the workers at those companies. But 43% goes to the owners, people like the Kochs. If they were happy with just 10% of the money, the price of gasoline could be that much cheaper. We’d be able to spend more on other stuff. There would be more jobs.

Greed is killing us. The greed of the wealthy is exactly the same impact on our economy as higher taxes.

Exactly the same as higher taxes.

If you don’t understand that, it is not because you are conservative. You are not conservative. The Tea Party of Boston 1773 was a reaction to the kind of corporate greed (on the part of the East India company) that you are now defending (on the part of the top 1%). You are the exact opposite of the original Tea Party.

[Grumplestiltskin]

REAL “conservatives” do not advocate imposing massive new tax architectures upon free people.

Herman Cain’s “999” plan is campaign snake oil, plain and simple.

It is slick talk, not much different than any other shuckster making up cute slogans to woo non-thinkers (”if the glove don’t fit, you must aquit!”)

How many Freepers have “drunk the tax Kool Aid” and come out defending and actually ADVOCATING in this forum for NEW TAXES?

Remember 1988? (I do)

Remember G.H.W. Bush’s famous campaign rhetoric?
“Read my lips — NO NEW TAXES!” (he thundered with as much might as a Connecticut-bred preppie could muster) (I do)

Remember only a few years later?
When Bush assented to a relatively mild income tax increase (in exchange for something else in a legislative deal long-since forgotten)? (I do)

Remember what happened in 1992?
How the American voters “fired” Bush for breaking his pledge to the voters? (I do)

Remember how, right here on FR, posters have again and again brought up the subject, of how Bush (the first) was rejected for having “gone wobbly” on taxation? (I do)

And now along comes Herman Cain, who proposes not only a completely new form of taxation on Americans (and one that was anathema to conservatives until Mr. Cain mouthed it), but a tax of almost TEN PERCENT on EVERYTHING that we will buy.

And folks right here on FR are lining up to toss down Herman’s Kool-Aid.

This also brings to mind some of the anti-left graphics I’ve seen posted here from time to time, showing some jackbooted thug, with the tag line “it’s not facism when WE do it”. Well, seems like Freepers have jumped the shark on that one, I propose a new graphic, with Mr. Cain smiling, and telling us “It’s not taxation when I do it!”

What did P.T. Barnum once say?

I’ll tell you what craggy ol’ Grumplestiltskin says:
NO NEW TAXES! PERIOD!

Just sayin’...

[going hot]

I thought you might be a propaganda pusher, but alas, i was wrong. You simply are an ingnorant fool. I will go and have a conversation with my tool box in the garage now, it displays more sense.

[Safrguns]

>>> Looking at the current Monthly Treasury reports, corporate income tax accounts for less than 10% of revenues under the current plan. If corporations are going to bear a much larger share of the tax burden, would we necessarily see savings in the prices of goods and services?

Looking at the monthly treasury reports only shows you what the government wants you to see. Income tax is on profits... not on cost of goods sold. If it costs you a LOT less to produce, you can LOWER your prices to become competitive again and INCREASE your profit margin. A big part of that savings in production would go to lowering the cost of the item which increases sales, and widens the tax base. It would increase government revenues while lowering the burden on consumers. THIS is what people are failing to see. Cain needs to do a better job of exposing hidden taxes on the costs of production... that is where the government is fleecing the public to death, and business along with it.

If you think about it, there is actually no such thing as a business tax... Because it all eventually ends up being translated into a personal income or sales tax through the cost of goods that we buy, and the income that individual investors receive on their shares. MOST of it is HIDDEN. 999 simplifies and exposes it.

[C. Edmund Wright]

I’ve yet to see the first whiff of evidence that you are indeed what your screen name indicates.