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To: Triple
The "V" sign was popularized by Winston Churchill during World War II, but I doubt the leftists who used the sign starting with the "Ban the Bomb" movement in the 1950s were fond of the British wartime leader.

As with the clenched fist sign, there may have been earlier manifestations of its use, but I am not aware of any.

38 posted on 10/17/2011 8:41:41 AM PDT by Wallace T. (Shoot, shovel, and shut up)
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To: Wallace T.

Thanks for your help.

It could be a black panther symbol - i’m checking it out.

It was on a relatively newly printed t-shirt worn by an OWS leader. I am looking to see which current socialist organization might be using it.

It could be a clue about the groups leading the OWS protests. (or not)


39 posted on 10/17/2011 8:51:03 AM PDT by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: Wallace T.
The "V" sign was popularized by Winston Churchill during World War II, but I doubt the leftists who used the sign starting with the "Ban the Bomb" movement in the 1950s were fond of the British wartime leader.

As with the clenched fist sign, there may have been earlier manifestations of its use, but I am not aware of any.

Read and learn:

An early recorded use of the "two-fingered salute" is in the Macclesfield Psalter of c.1330 (in the Fitzwilliam Museum, Cambridge), being made by a glove in the Psalter’s marginalia.

According to a popular legend, the two-fingered salute or V sign derives from the gestures of longbowmen fighting in the English army at the Battle of Agincourt (1415) during the Hundred Years' War. According to the story, the French claimed that they would cut off the arrow-shooting fingers of all the English and Welsh longbowmen after they had won the battle at Agincourt. But the English came out victorious and showed off their two fingers, still intact. Historian Juliet Barker quotes Jean Le Fevre (who fought on the English side at Agincourt) as saying that Henry V included a reference to the French cutting off longbowmen's fingers in his pre-battle speech. If this is correct it confirms that the story was around at the time of Agincourt, although it does not necessarily mean that the French practised it, just that Henry found it useful for propaganda, and it does not show that the two-fingered salute is derived from the hypothetical behaviour of English archers at that battle.

The first definitive known reference to the V sign in French is in the works of François Rabelais, a sixteenth-century satirist.

It was not until the start of the 20th century that clear evidence of the use of insulting V sign in England became available, when in 1901 a worker outside Parkgate ironworks in Rotherham used the gesture (captured on the film) to indicate that he did not like being filmed. Peter Opie interviewed children in the 1950s and observed in The Lore and Language of Schoolchildren that the much older thumbing of the nose (cock-a-snook) had been replaced by the V sign as the most common insulting gesture used in the playground.

Desmond Morris discussed various possible origins of the V sign in Gestures: Their Origins and Distribution (published 1979), and came to no definite conclusion:

because of the strong taboo associated with the gesture (its public use has often been heavily penalized). As a result, there is a tendency to shy away from discussing it in detail. It is "known to be dirty" and is passed on from generation to generation by people who simply accept it as a recognized obscenity without bothering to analyse it... Several of the rival claims are equally appealing. The truth is that we will probably never know...

The insulting version of the gesture (with the palm inwards) is often compared to the offensive gesture known as "the finger". The "two-fingered salute", also known as "The Longbowman Salute", "the two" and as "The Tongs" in the West of Scotland and "the forks" in Australia, is commonly performed by flicking the V upwards from wrist or elbow. The V sign, when the palm is facing toward the person giving the sign, has long been an insulting gesture in England, and later in the rest of the United Kingdom; though the use of the inward peace sign as an insulting gesture is largely restricted to the UK, Ireland, Australia, and New Zealand. It is frequently used to signify defiance (especially to authority), contempt, or derision.

—Desmond Morris
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49 posted on 10/17/2011 2:58:14 PM PDT by archy (I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous!)
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