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To: Gunslingr3
Gunslinger,

I appreciate you posting your personal opinions and interpretations of an excise tax and I think anyone reading the thread understands your position.

You do not support the founder’s expressed intentions regarding the rule of apportionment as applied to any general tax laid among the states which I have repeatedly documented for you.

You also assert "From 1791 to 1802, the United States government was supported by internal taxes on distilled spirits, carriages, refined sugar, tobacco and snuff, property sold at auction, corporate bonds, and slaves.”

But you omitted from you list those occasions during your stated time period when Congress laid a general tax among the states, and did so by the rule of apportionment:

The Act of July 14, 1798, c. 75, 1 Stat. 53. This act imposed a tax upon real estate and a capitation tax upon slaves.

The Act of Aug. 2, 1813, c. 37, 3 id. 53. By this act the tax was imposed upon real estate and slaves, according to their respective values in money.

. The Act of Jan. 19, 1815, c. 21, id. 164. This act imposed the tax upon the same descriptions of property, and in like manner as the preceding act.

. The Act of Feb. 27, 1815, c. 60, id. 216, applied to the District of Columbia the provisions of the Act of Jan. 19, 1815.

. The Act of March 5, 1816, c. 24, id. 255, repealed the two preceding acts, and reenacted their provisions to enforce the collection of the smaller amount of tax thereby prescribed.

And, aside from the above mentioned omissions you made, you also stated: “The high cost of the War of 1812 brought about the nation's first sales taxes on gold, silverware, jewelry, and watches.”

But this assertion, that the founders laid a “sales tax”, is nowhere to be found in the Acts of Congress during the year(s) in question, and as I previously noted, is probably something you found on the internet, which has never been substantiated. And it can’t be substantiated because a “sales tax” is not to be found under the ACTS RELATING TO DUTIES ON MERCHANDISE FROM FEB 22 1805 THROUGH MARCH 3RD 1815

So tell us, why did you post an assertion that the founders laid a “sales tax” when no such tax is to be found in the historical record, and laid by our founding fathers? What is you motive for doing this?

JWK

121 posted on 10/03/2011 10:37:37 AM PDT by JOHN W K
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To: JOHN W K
I appreciate you posting your personal opinions and interpretations of an excise tax and I think anyone reading the thread understands your position.

Nice try, but it is not 'personal opinion', it is the ruling of the Supreme Court in Hylton V. United States: "All taxes on expenses or consumption are indirect taxes," and binding case law in the United States.

You refuse repeatedly to address my simple question, which goes to the heart of the matter, "Do you understand how direct taxes differ from indirect taxes?" Your silence on this matter is as deafening as it is damning.

But you omitted from you list those occasions during your stated time period when Congress laid a general tax among the states, and did so by the rule of apportionment:

Those weren't 'general taxes', they were direct taxes, which are subject to apportionment. Again, from Hylton V. United States:"I never entertained a doubt that the principal, I will not say, the only, objects that the framers of the Constitution contemplated as falling within the rule of apportionment were a capitation tax and a tax on land."

The taxes you listed were explicitly declared as either capitations, or property taxes, which are subject to apportionment. A sales tax is an excise tax, and as such not subject to apportionment, but instead uniformity amongst the States in implementation.

The Supreme Court has already ruled that Congress can tax consumption without apportionment between the States, and without any of the limitations you have conjured.

122 posted on 10/03/2011 12:24:50 PM PDT by Gunslingr3
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