“I guess you aren’t getting it. The DOCUMENT which CREATED the COURTS is not SUBSERVIENT to the POLICIES of the COURTS.
The answer that “This is how we USUALLY do it, and this is “self authenticating” is just utter nonsense when it deals with a constitutional requirement of compliance. If it is REAL PROOF, then it is acceptable. If it is NOT REAL PROOF, than we don’t care how many people say “it’s just as good as real proof.” it’s still not the same thing.
The public statements by Hawaiian officials are at odds with what their official signed statements say. For this reason, no attention should be paid to the public pronouncements of Hawaiian officials unless they are swearing to them in a court of law. Even then, there might be the possibility that they don’t know what the H*ll they are talking about.”
It isn’t the state of Hawaii that would assert that their birth certificate is self-authenticating, it would be any defense attorney, such as Obama’s Department of Justice Attorneys who would make that claim.
No original jurisdiction judicial proceeding on this issue has gone beyond pre-trial motions to dismiss and no criminal legal action has been initiated.
The U.S. Constitution gives the power to the states to determine the validity of all state records (Article IV, Section 1) and the Federal Rules of Evidence state that birth records are self-authenticating. The Federal Rules of Evidence were passed by Congress and signed into law by President Ford in 1975 (Public Law 93-595).
The Hawaii Health Code states the Hawaiian Certificate of Live Birth serves as "prima facie" evidence of the birth, if and when certain other conditions are met.
Nevertheless, prima facie evidence or self-authenticating official documents are subject to rebuttal and impeachment in an administrative hearing, a court of law, or legislative impeachment in the event such a document and its authentication can be evidenced to be a forgery and fraudulent.
Millions of Puerto Rican birth certificates were recently invalidated due to the high incidence of fraud and identity theft connected with their insecure issuance and usage. Consequently, it is a well known fact of life that the birth certificates authenticated by a state government or territorial government are subject to a very high incidence of forgery and fraud, making their authentication unreliable as a true determination of the facts of birth.
Puerto Rico Birth Certificates Law 191 of 2009 (As Amended)
Fact Sheet
The government of Puerto Rico has enacted a new law (Law 191 of 2009, amended June 2010) to strengthen the issuance and usage of birth certificates, to combat fraud and to protect the identity and credit of all people born in Puerto Rico. The new law was based on collaboration with the U.S. Department of State (DOS) and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to address the fraudulent use of Puerto Rico-issued birth certificates to unlawfully obtain U.S. passports, Social Security benefits, and other federal services.
In the past, many common official and unofficial transactions in Puerto Rico unnecessarily required the submission, retention, and storage of birth certificates. As a result, hundreds of thousands of original birth certificates were stored without adequate protection, making them easy targets for theft. Subsequently, many birth certificates have been stolen from schools and other institutions, sold on the black market for prices up to $10,000 each, and used to illegally obtain passports, licenses, and other government and private sector documentation and benefits. The common Hispanic names of most individuals born in Puerto Rico made the birth certificates highly desirable on the black market. This left Puerto Rico-born citizens vulnerable to identity theft, ruined credit, stolen Social Security benefits, and increased “random” security checks at airports, among others.
Understanding the enormous risks to all individuals as well as the very significant homeland and national security concerns, the government of Puerto Rico took action to improve the security of all birth certificates and to better protect the public from fraud and identity theft. Law 191 (as Amended) implements the following changes: 1) Starting July 1, 2010, the Puerto Rico Department of Health will begin issuing new, more secure birth certificates through the Vital Statistics Record Office. 2) On September 30, 2010, the law will invalidate all birth certificates issued before July 1, 2010. Until September 30, 2010, all birth certificates issued prior to July 1, 2010 will remain valid. The purpose of this three-month overlap in the validity of the old and the new birth certificates is to provide those Puerto Rico-born -- who may need a birth certificate for an upcoming transaction -- a three-month window to apply for and receive the new document during which time their current birth certificate will still be valid.
In order to upgrade service for those seeking the new, more secure birth certificates, the government of Puerto Rico has launched a new on-line application process on the E-Government website: www.pr.gov. Instructions on how to apply on-line or by mail, as well as information on Puerto Rico’s birth certificate law, can be found at:
www.prfaa.com/birthcertificates/ and
www.prfaa.com/certificadosdenacimiento/.
The Hawaii Health Code states the Hawaiian Certificate of Live Birth serves as "prima facie" evidence of the birth, if and when certain other conditions are met.
Nevertheless, prima facie evidence or self-authenticating official documents are subject to rebuttal and impeachment in an administrative hearing, a court of law, or legislative impeachment in the event such a document and its authentication can be evidenced to be a forgery and fraudulent.
Millions of Puerto Rican birth certificates were recently invalidated due to the high incidence of fraud and identity theft connected with their insecure issuance and usage. Consequently, it is a well known fact of life that the birth certificates authenticated by a state government or territorial government are subject to a very high incidence of forgery and fraud, making their authentication unreliable as a true determination of the facts of birth.
Puerto Rico Birth Certificates Law 191 of 2009 (As Amended)
Fact Sheet
The government of Puerto Rico has enacted a new law (Law 191 of 2009, amended June 2010) to strengthen the issuance and usage of birth certificates, to combat fraud and to protect the identity and credit of all people born in Puerto Rico. The new law was based on collaboration with the U.S. Department of State (DOS) and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to address the fraudulent use of Puerto Rico-issued birth certificates to unlawfully obtain U.S. passports, Social Security benefits, and other federal services.
In the past, many common official and unofficial transactions in Puerto Rico unnecessarily required the submission, retention, and storage of birth certificates. As a result, hundreds of thousands of original birth certificates were stored without adequate protection, making them easy targets for theft. Subsequently, many birth certificates have been stolen from schools and other institutions, sold on the black market for prices up to $10,000 each, and used to illegally obtain passports, licenses, and other government and private sector documentation and benefits. The common Hispanic names of most individuals born in Puerto Rico made the birth certificates highly desirable on the black market. This left Puerto Rico-born citizens vulnerable to identity theft, ruined credit, stolen Social Security benefits, and increased “random” security checks at airports, among others.
Understanding the enormous risks to all individuals as well as the very significant homeland and national security concerns, the government of Puerto Rico took action to improve the security of all birth certificates and to better protect the public from fraud and identity theft. Law 191 (as Amended) implements the following changes: 1) Starting July 1, 2010, the Puerto Rico Department of Health will begin issuing new, more secure birth certificates through the Vital Statistics Record Office. 2) On September 30, 2010, the law will invalidate all birth certificates issued before July 1, 2010. Until September 30, 2010, all birth certificates issued prior to July 1, 2010 will remain valid. The purpose of this three-month overlap in the validity of the old and the new birth certificates is to provide those Puerto Rico-born -- who may need a birth certificate for an upcoming transaction -- a three-month window to apply for and receive the new document during which time their current birth certificate will still be valid.
In order to upgrade service for those seeking the new, more secure birth certificates, the government of Puerto Rico has launched a new on-line application process on the E-Government website: www.pr.gov. Instructions on how to apply on-line or by mail, as well as information on Puerto Rico’s birth certificate law, can be found at:
www.prfaa.com/birthcertificates/ and
www.prfaa.com/certificadosdenacimiento/.
They can claim anything they want. Anyone not ignorant of Adoption law would immediately realize that unless there is further evidence to show that no adoption or modification has ever taken place, A birth certificate document by itself cannot establish the information to which it is attesting. This is not a problem for every usage for it OTHER THAN proving eligibility for the Presidency. For THAT task, it is INADEQUATE. As the eligibility for Presidency is itself a CONSTITUTIONAL REQUIREMENT, it cannot be trumped by lesser court policies. To do so would be gaming the system.
No original jurisdiction judicial proceeding on this issue has gone beyond pre-trial motions to dismiss and no criminal legal action has been initiated.
No court will accept the argument that an illegitimate President constitutes an "Injury" to any individual.( a preposterous argument, put forth out of cowardice.)
The U.S. Constitution gives the power to the states to determine the validity of all state records (Article IV, Section 1) and the Federal Rules of Evidence state that birth records are self-authenticating. The Federal Rules of Evidence were passed by Congress and signed into law by President Ford in 1975 (Public Law 93-595).
This is not a state issue. It is an issue of Constitutional law, of which the states and Federal government are merely players. The Requirements of the election officials of each state is not to accept documents, but to accept proof. (Could be videotape or eye witness testimony for all the difference it makes.) If a document cannot constitute proof, it cannot be accepted as such. Declaring it "proof" is just a lawyer exercise in idiocy, and sensible people should tolerate no part of it. In fact, any lawyer which tries to pull a stunt like this OUGHT to go to jail for 90 days.
Again, a Constitutional requirement trumps all courts, all laws, all polices and procedures, and everything but another constitutional requirement. It is a club by which silly arguments are beaten down and left with bruises and contusions such as your argument above.