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To: WhiskeyX
It is not every day or every year that an alleged native of Hawaii has served as the president and political leader of a major nation or any nation. Sun Yat-sen is about the only other putative President besides Barack Hussein Obama II (aka Barry Soetoro) to have been issued a Hawaiian birth certificate, fake or genuine. Consequently, it is a good example being the only such example of a President available. If we start disqualifying every available example, we can only put unreality on the pedestal in place of reality. That can hardly be considered rational or reasonable.

It is not necessary that an example of a fraudulently issued birth certificate be that of a President. Any ordinary person of foreign birth who possesses a Hawaiian issued birth certificate from the late 50s early 60s era would serve as a far better example of the salient point. (That Hawaii willingly issued birth certificates to people who were actually not born there.)

I have been in countless arguments where I assert that "Hawaii will even issue birth certificates to people not born there" but when asked for an example I give them none rather than argue something which happened at the turn of the century has any bearing on what happened in 1961. The only evidence i've been able to point to in these arguments is the Hawaiian Statutes which assert they will issue a birth certificate to the child of any Hawaiian resident, regardless of place of birth.

A Single example of just an ordinary birth certificate issued to someone known to be foreign born, would be invaluable in demonstrating the point. No one takes the Sun Yat-Sen thing seriously. Everyone chalks it up to loose territorial governance, not evidence of a usual and common occurrence based on Hawaiian governmental laws and policies.

If you want a more recent example of a fraudulent birth certificate being issued to a non-qualified person, you need look no farther than Barack Hussein Obama II (aka Barry Soetoro, but of course that is going to be ignored as well. The question then must be considered just what example will not and cannot be disregarded as “a good example?”

We can't use the accusation that Barack's birth certificate is illegitimate as proof that it is illegitimate. This is circular reasoning. Yeah, I think it's illegitimate, but we need proof that critics will accept before we can just say so. A Hawaiian birth certificate for someone born in Japan or China or anywhere but Hawaii would be invaluable in making the point that you can't trust the Hawaiian DOH to tell you the truth about whether someone is born there or not, and thereby it would call into question the legitimacy of Barry's document.

Had Sun Yat-Sen been given a Hawaiian birth certificate from the 1950s, we could use it to impeach the credibility of Hawaii's DOH. Having been issued around the turn of the century, no body is going to accept that as proof that the territory which became a state 50 years later is still doing such things. It's just too old to be taken seriously.

113 posted on 08/03/2011 8:50:13 AM PDT by DiogenesLamp (Abortion is Murder and Democrats are evil.)
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To: DiogenesLamp

“Hawaii will even issue birth certificates to people not born there”

This has been known to be true for years. I’ve seen numerous examples floating about the Net.

However, each one of these Hawaiian issued BC’s show the actual place of birth. They will only list a Hawaiian birth if the individual was actually born in Hawaii.


115 posted on 08/03/2011 8:57:38 AM PDT by El Sordo (The bigger the government, the smaller the citizen.)
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To: DiogenesLamp

Department of Health and Human Services OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL.
BIRTH CERTIFICATE FRAUD.
JUNE GIBBS BROWN Inspector General
SEPTEMBER 2000 0EI-07-99-00570.
[….]
EXECUTIVE SUMMARY

PURPOSE
To provide an update on the nature and extent of birth certificate fraud.

BACKGROUND
Legitimate birth certificates provide vital information about the person whose name appears on the certificate. Issuing birth certificates is the responsibility of State vital records registrars and numerous local issuing entities. While originally intended for the sole purpose of birth registration, birth certificates are now used extensively for employment purposes and to obtain benefits or other documents used for identification.

Over the last 25 years, a number of studies have addressed problems related to false identification and the misuse of birth certificates. These studies conclude that false identification is a major factor in crime, and that most, if not all, Federal fugitives and drug trafficking crimes are associated with false identification. They also conclude that stolen, counterfeit, and altered birth certificates are often used as “breeder documents” that allow the holder to obtain documents needed to create new identities.[...]

FINDINGS

[….]

Birth Certificates Continue to be Used as “Breeder Documents” and are Easy to Obtain
Virtually all Federal and State agencies agree that fraudulent birth certificates are used as “breeder documents” to obtain the genuine documents needed to create new identities, and that fraudulent birth certificates are easy to obtain.[...]

Birth Certificate Fraud is Hard to Detect
Many altered or counterfeit birth certificates and genuine birth certificates held by imposters may go undetected. The reasons why these fraudulent birth certificates are hard to detect include the following:

[….]

between 85 and 90 percent of the birth certificate fraud encountered by the Immigration and Naturalization Services and Passport Services staff is the result of genuine birth certificates held by imposters — the most difficult fraud to detect; and

Federal and State agency staff report receiving only limited training focused on the detection of fraudulent birth certificates.

State Practices Create Opportunities for Fraud
It was the consensus of those we interviewed that a number of State practices create opportunities for fraud. Those practices include the following:
delayed, amended, and midwife birth registrations that are based on affidavits of personal knowledge, include no documentary evidence, and are not often marked or overlaid accordingly;

[….]

Birth Certificate Fraud is Seldom Prosecuted
Virtually all of the Federal and State agency staff we talked with indicate birth certificate fraud is seldom prosecuted unless it can be linked to large dollar losses or other punishable crimes. Most staff also indicate that many prosecutors are reluctant, or refuse to take birth certificate fraud cases in which the only charge is attempting to obtain another individual’s birth certificate, or counterfeiting or altering a birth certificate. At the same time, misconceptions exist surrounding the security and integrity of birth certificates.

CONCLUSIONS
Birth Certificates Alone do not Provide Conclusive or Reliable Proof of Identity
Many agencies and organizations request that individuals provide their birth certificates to receive a benefit or service, or to support the issuance of other documents often used for identity purposes (e.g., driver’s license). However, agencies who rely on birth certificates as a means of establishing identity must understand the limitations of accepting a birth certificate as proof of age, citizenship, or identity. For example, genuine documents obtained with counterfeit birth certificates can be used to obtain genuine birth certificates. Thus, it is inherently illogical to require someone to prove their identity using potentially fraudulent identity documents spawned by false birth certificates in order to obtain a birth certificate.

Further, it would be Impractical to Redesign Birth Certificates to Make them Reliable Identification Documents in and of Themselves
Efforts to make the birth certificate into a reliable identity document are complicated by the more than 14,000 different legitimate versions in existence, and the more than 6,000 entities which issue them and the processes they use to do so. Efforts are also complicated by the ease with which birth certificates can legitimately be obtained and counterfeited, and the fact that the majority of fraud is now being committed by imposters using genuine birth certificates. Also, any changes to the birth certificate itself will take essentially a lifetime to become effective.

[….]

INTRODUCTION

PURPOSE
To provide an update on the nature and extent of birth certificate fraud.

BACKGROUND
The Birth Certificate Process
[….]

Previous Reports on Birth Certificate Fraud
Federal Advisory Committee on False Identification - Problems related to false identification and misuse of birth certificates have been addressed in a number of studies conducted over the last 25 years. In 1974, the Federal Advisory Committee on False Identification (FACFI), commissioned by the Attorney General of the United States, recognized the criminal use of false identification documents. In its 1976 report entitled The Criminal Use of False Identification, the committee concluded that 100 percent of all Federal fugitives and 80 percent of all drug trafficking are associated with false identification. They also reported that false identification is a major factor in crime, including illegal immigration and flight from justice, and that falsified or stolen vital statistics (i.e., birth certificates) are used as “breeder documents.” (“Breeder documents” refer to documents that allow the holder to obtain other documents — passports, driver’s licenses, etc. — and benefits, such as resident status, Social Security benefits, loans, and other government aid, including Temporary Assistance to Needy Families, Food Stamps, and Medicaid).[...]

This Inquiry
This inspection was initiated at the request of the Department of Health and Human Services in the fall of 1999. The Department requested that the OIG provide information that the Department could use in responding to responsibilities placed on it as a result of the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act of 1996. More specifically, the Act requires the Secretary to “submit a report to Congress on ways to reduce the fraudulent obtaining and use of birth certificates.” This inspection focuses on the processes of issuing and fraud associated with certified copies of birth certificates.[...]

METHODOLOGY
[….]

FINDINGS
In conducting this inspection, we heard many stories of people whose lives have been adversely affected by birth certificate fraud — people who were personally victimized by stolen identities and suffered financial ruin. Others stories were more far-reaching, describing the criminal use of fraudulent birth certificates to evade law enforcement for crimes already committed, commit bank or credit card fraud, or obtain services and benefits for which individuals were not entitled. We also heard stories about fraudulent birth certificates used by terrorists and drug traffickers to acquire passports for international travel, and by illegal aliens attempting to avoid detection and deportation. The common threads running through each of these stories are 1) fraudulent birth certificates were involved, 2) most false identity crimes go undetected, 3) once detected, few false identity crimes are successfully prosecuted, and ultimately, 4) each one of us is affected by birth certificate fraud every day.

[….]

Fundamental, Irreconcilable Conflicts Surround Birth Certificate Purposes and Uses
A Birth Certificate is Proof Only that a Birth Occurred and was Recorded. It is important to recall the intended purpose of a birth certificate — to certify that a birth was documented and recorded. For that purpose, it is not unreasonable that State laws allow public access to these records. Efforts to restrict access to birth certificates would diminish their value for the purpose they were originally designed to serve.

However, Birth Certificates are Used as Proof of Age, Citizenship, and Identity.
Birth certificates are widely recognized as proof of age, place of birth, and identity. They
are also used extensively for employment purposes, to obtain benefits or other documents
(e.g., driver’s licenses, Social Security cards, and passports), to assist in determining
eligibility for public assistance and other benefits, to enroll children in school, and as proof
of age eligibility for sports and other age restricted activities. However, because they were never designed to provide sole proof of identity, and because a birth certificate cannot be positively linked with an individual, their use for that purpose is questionable.
[….]

Birth Certificates Continue to be Used as “Breeder Documents” and Are Easy to Obtain
As we previously reported in 1988, 1991, and 1996, birth certificates continue to be used as “breeder documents” from which other supporting documents can be secured to alter identities and fraudulently obtain services and benefits. Virtually all Federal and State agencies agree that fraudulent birth certificates are used to obtain genuine documents, and in concert with other fraudulent documents, to create new identities....]

[….]

Most State and county issuing offices are located within the auspices of their respective
health departments. The sale of birth certificates serves as source of revenue for States
and the only source of revenue for some State health departments, thus creating no
disincentive for issuing birth certificates. The sale of birth certificates can serve also as a
major source of revenue for many local offices. For these departments and offices,
restrictions on the issuance of birth certificates could adversely affect revenues.

Fraudulent Birth Certificates are Hard to Detect
With the exception of detection by highly trained Immigration and Naturalization Services and Passport Services staff, information we obtained indicates many altered or counterfeit birth certificates and genuine birth certificates held by imposters may go undetected. Officials who use birth certificates to determine eligibility for services and benefits say they fail to detect many fraudulent documents, and the ones they do detect are “only the tip of the iceberg.”[....]

Most Birth Certificate Fraud is Committed Using Genuine Documents. An alarming fact is that most of the fraudulent documents identified by Immigration and Naturalization Services staff are genuine documents held by imposters, the most difficult frauds to detect. For example, staff in the El Paso Intelligence Center4 indicate that 90 percent of the false claims cases they see involve bonafide birth certificates held by imposters. Passport Services staff report parallel statistics, stating that 85 percent of the birth certificate fraud they encounter also is the result of genuine birth certificates held by imposters.[...]

[….]

State Practices Create Opportunities for Fraud
Delayed, Amended, and Midwife Birth Registrations Provide Opportunities for Fraud. State and local vital records staff say birth certificates issued based on delayed and amended birth registrations are more likely to be fraudulent.[...]

[….]

Birth Certificate Fraud is Seldom Prosecuted
The False Identification Crime Control Act of 1982, Public Law 97-398, amended Title 18 of the United States Code to provide penalties for certain false identification related crimes.

Section 1028 of that law addresses fraud activity in connection with identification documents. This law makes it a crime to knowingly produce, transfer, or possess false identification documents with the intent to defraud the United States. Punishment for an offense under this Act is a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment for up to 5 years. Many State statutes also address identity fraud, but it is considered a felony in only 23 States. In 28 States, birth certificate fraud remains a misdemeanor.

However, virtually all of the Federal and State staff we talked with indicate birth certificate fraud is seldom prosecuted unless it can be linked to large dollar losses or other punishable crimes. Most staff also indicate that many prosecutors are reluctant, or refuse to take birth certificate fraud cases in which the only charge is attempting to obtain another individual’s birth certificate, or counterfeiting or altering a birth certificate. Further, State registrars indicate they receive information about potential fraud cases from Passport Services, SSA, Department of Motor Vehicle offices, and law enforcement. However, most indicate they receive little feedback regarding cases they refer for prosecution.

Misconceptions Exist Regarding the Security and Integrity of Birth Certificates
During the course of our study, we found that many misconceptions exist surrounding the security and integrity of birth certificates. We also found that a lack of education exists regarding the importance of securing vital records information. Misconceptions include the following:

a birth certificate insures the identity and citizenship of the person holding it;

[….]

CONCLUSIONS
Birth Certificates Alone do not Provide Conclusive or Reliable Proof of Identity
However, agencies who rely on birth certificates as a means of establishing identity must understand the limitations of accepting a birth certificate as proof of age, citizenship, or identity. While the agency has a need or requirement for establishing identity, the issuing entity most likely does not.
A related point is that genuine documents obtained with counterfeit birth certificates can be used to obtain genuine birth certificates, which in turn are used to obtain additional identification documents.[...]

Further, it would be Impractical to Redesign Birth Certificates to Make them Reliable Identification Documents in and of Themselves
The birth certificate does not provide positive proof of identity of the holder.[...]

[….]

In Addition, Federal and State Program Administrators Should Assess the Proofs of Identity They Will Accept
Even if their security is improved, birth certificates may still not be the best proof of identity. For this reason, program administrators may not want to use birth certificates at all, or to use them only with other documents, as noted above. Agencies need to specify which other documents and methods of proving identity (e.g., fingerprints, testimony of relatives, employer information, background checks) they will accept in determining eligibility for services and benefits.[...]

[….]


213 posted on 08/05/2011 8:46:04 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: DiogenesLamp
As the DHHS Birth Certificate Fraud reports, documenting Hawaii's birth certificate fraud id problematic because of the Federal state, and local government's refusals to investigate or prosecute cases of birth certificate fraud, even when discovered and reported to law enforcement. The report informs us the rate of birth certificate fraud ranges from greater to 80 percent to 100 percent in certain categories of crime, but the component of the criminal activity encopassing the birth certificate fraud is ignored by the prosecutors even while prosecuting the other criminal counts. Just because the government chooses to routinely ignore the birth certificate fraud even when discovered and reported certainly does not and cannot indicate the State of Hawaii does not issue fraudulent birth certificates. Instead, it indicates the state of Hawaii and other governments simply tolerate and condone the crime in almost all instances. The reality of this situation is not unlike the governments’ lack of prosecution and lack of accurate reporting of illegal immigration and illegal immigrants, often for the same reasons and motivations.
214 posted on 08/05/2011 9:01:52 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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