Posted on 04/30/2011 5:50:03 AM PDT by kindred
Because the Church is NOT Israel, nor are all jews returned to Israel yet, nor is the world judged yet
the 7 years will do that, everything else is reaping what we have sown, with chastisement mixed in between, because we have abandoned God
Nowhere has any one nation been selected to represent God, EXCEPT Israel
Everyone else is an individual, not a country, yet, we CLAIM to be a Christian country, we have tried to apply those standards to ourselves nationally, NO OTHER nation has ever done so from it’s origin
Do we deserve better treatment than those who came before as a nation? NO.
But did God say He was coming back to take us off the Earthbefore the 7 year tribulation? YES
OK. Thank-you for clearing that up.
I live in Maine, the most heavily forested state in America.
We’re up to our keisters in both softwood and hardwood trees here....there must be a couple of billion trees in Maine alone.
RB my brother,
Exactly! It’s clear cut. The Lord reward your efforts for they are not in vain!
DP I.F.
Are you a Jewish believer who is reformed??
Yes my friend it will be near impossible for me to deny what the Scriptures clearly teach on the Rapture.
We will both be with our Lord in the end… but one of will be wrong on the Rapture doctrine. Sadly it will be you by dear friend…lol… No big deal… It will not matter the moment you are taken up (1 John 3:2-3)
Seven Trib
Daniel 9:24-27 teaches seven years 70th week) and Revelation does teach seven years also. The Two Witnesses Rev. 11:2-4,7 the First 3.5 years - the Beast that ascends out of the abyss 42 months or 3.5 years AFTER the Two Witnesses ministry is complete (Rev. 13:5) = 7 -— 1260 days + 42 months = 7 years.
I.F.
Interestingly enough, Rev 11:15 (3 verses after 11:12 which has the two witnesses ascend into heaven) Indicates the 7th, or last, trumpet is sounded. At this point the angel proclaims:
"The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever."
Vs 17 says "thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. " and verse 18:
"And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. "
yet your doctrine indicates that Jesus has to wait 3.5 more years, because the beast has not begun his reign?
Actually, this is the same "last trump" indicated in 1 Corinthians 15:52.
Please note that i am rebuffing you assertions with a plain reading of the scripture, without the pre-trib framework.
Below is Daniel 9:27:
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
In verse 26, 2 people are referred to, "The Messiah", and "the prince that shall come". So who is "he" in verse 27? However, Jesus, the Messiah, did confirm a covenant in Matthew 26:28, Mark 14:24 and Luke 22:20. Also, 1 Cor 11:25 and Hebrews 9:15 explain the New Covenant in His blood. I assert to you that "he" of Daniel 9:27 is Messiah, not the beast.
I challenge you to provide 1 scriptural reference that the beast signs a peace treaty with Israel outside of this verse.
Please provide 1 scripture quote that support this, and post the KJV version in your response for me to see. I can provide you with 4 that teach the EXACT opposite. Not theories, books, or quotes from theologians, but actual scripture that plainly teaches it.
Once more I will challenge your assertions. Provide 1 scriptural reference, with the KJV copied, that supports this claim.
The word "tribulation" is used 21 times in the NT, and all but 3 times it plainly refers to the suffering of the saints, and the other 3 times it refers to the great tribulation. I assert that the great tribulation is FOR the saints, for we will be persecuted like never before! NEVER doe the scripture use the word tribulation to refer to the suffering of non-believers. That is called wrath!
Gentlemen, please be aware I am not trying to antagonize you! I was where you are doctrinally 18 years ago on this issue. I finally decided to put aside all I had been taught on this issue, and search to see what the scripture actually says, not what I had been taught it says. I am simply showing you what I found! Scripture, without any preconceived framework, is plain on the matter. It was hard for me to see it at first, because I had grown up with that 19th century doctrine of the pre-trib, and it colored all of my study. Eventually the scales fell from my eyes.
it is a shame you became an apostate and abaondoned the faith
Blind faith is dangerous faith! Again you do not answer my challenges with scripture, rather you duck and hide behind the "heretic" name calling, a clead inication of the weakness of the position. I am 99% sure you did not even read the scripture I quoted here, much less looked up the references I provided. When the beast shows up, will you abandon your faith in The Way, since this part of your doctrine proved untrue? Take heed lest no man deceive you! Study the scripture for yourself!
I follow the Jewish MessiahI am not "Reformed".
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
and His WORD
Intentionally ignoring what it says is more dangerous than ignorance, and i have read up on this quite a bit, so have you, yet you choose to not believe.
Logically so, for the clear weight of scripture, logic, and historical interpretation is against it!
Scripture isn’t about logic, it is about truth.
you need to give up
Are you dispensational?
I never took it that way... just bouncing some things off you. We sill are Christ’s... we just disagree on this.
I.F.
Yes.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
Wow!
Ok, you win, I give up. So, how do I know truth?
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