Is Fred Phelps a Democrat? (Yes - supported Al Gore)

hillbuzz.org ^ | December 11, 2010 | hillbuzz staff

[llandres]

“Instead of excusing wimps, why don’t you focus on the topic at hand which is the fact that Phelps’ roots were never in anything having to do with God or Christiainty at all, but in the Democrat party with an intent to loudly mis-represent conservative opposition with headline-grabbing absurdities.”

I was merely pointing out a fact as to why we get mischaracterized. I don’t approve of the gay lifestyle or gay marriage in the least, and was elated to get the info about Phelps and his nut jobs being Democrat. I made a point of relaying this to many libs I know and plan to keep doing so.

[JulieRNR21]

Interesting! The MSM haven’t reported the connection!

If he’d been associated with any GOP candidate the MSM would be screaming 24/7 about it!

[JulieRNR21]

Please ping you lists....

[Agamemnon]

He's also a Calvinist.

That statement is as much of a lie as is his calling himself a Christian is.

But to your implicit "guilt-by association" slam at Calvinists, I'll just say, "So what?" Many of our nation's Founders were Calvinists, and Calvinism is in part at the foundational philosophical core of a religious Reformation ("Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" - delivered by famous "New Light" Calvinist minister Jonathan Edwards) that eventually inspired and led to the political Reformation known as the United States.

You might want to start employing some substantive critical thinking skills to whatever sources you consult for information on these kinds of topics before you choose to post so carelessly.

[Agamemnon]

I was merely pointing out a fact as to why we get mischaracterized.

You're too busy tip-toeing around all the propaganda to be any kind of an effective opposition to it.

If anything Fred Phelps has done or said about gays as a way to caricature what should be the complete and total aggressive denunciation and opposition to that lifestyle, has cowed you into silence, Phelps wins and you lose.

All the "merely pointing out" garbage "merely" gins-up a misplaced second guessing and sows dissembling seeds of doubt among the ranks of the legitimate conservative opposition to that societally corrosive behavior. You want us all to wring our hands in a way that leads to a perpetual tailspin of ineffectiveness -- and that is exactly what Phelps wants.

Your methods let them define the terms on which the conservative opposition can do battle with them.

By contrast I prefer define the battlefield, because I intend to win, thank you.

[Fred Hayek]

I was not justifying Fred Phelps views, or even associating it with what would be regarded as what most consider a Biblically sound application of Calvinism. Thus my use of the term “extreme off the rails”, as in divorced from any Biblical principal (and opposed to what Calvin, Knox, etc., had written). If Phelps indeed calls himself a Calvinism, it is a perversion of even hyper-Calvinism. The kind where one believes that there is no point in spreading the Gospel, thus my comparison with Harold Camping, who believes that the Holy Spirit has departed form the Church and there will be no more people saved. Do the Phelps Phreaks spread the Good News as Christ commanded? No, they just sneer “You’re going to hell”.

[Agamemnon]

And don't you suppose that it's just as much Phelps' intention to besmirch "Calvinism," as well?

I don't even buy the use of your term "hyper-Calvinism," regardless of whether it seems you have now chosen to back off from your prior use of the term to some degree. The term "hyper-Calvinism" in itself is a complete misrepresentation of the application and meaning of Calvinism.

Calvin never taught that evangelism was useless or inappropriate. In fact failure to evangelize flies directly in the face of Christ's departing command to "go into the world and preach the Gospel...."

"All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out." John 6:37 (KJV)

Christians don't have to understand why we are told to evangelize "all that the Father giveth me," since Christ clearly states that they "shall come to me." That's what Calvin meant by his term, "Irresistable grace."

We just have to obey God and evangelize, because that is the way He has chosen to compel those who will be saved to come to the realization of that grace, to accept Christ as Lord and Savior and thereby to be saved. We are told by Him to evangelize; therefore, it is never an option for Christians not to do so.

Calvin never instructed anyone to be disobedient to Christ in this or in any other regard.

To indict Calvin by implication that he ever preached anything resembling what you have continually chosen to term, "hyper-Calvinism," is a gross misrepresentation of the man and the Biblically sound principles about which he wrote and from which he taught.

FReegards!

[Fred Hayek]

I have never said that Calvin never taught that evangelism was useless. The illustration of Harold Camping is yet another perversion and twisting around of Calvin. Camping is a heretic. Calvin is not. Hyper-Calvinism is indeed a complete misrepresentation, and I have not backed off from that at all. Even Pensacola Christian College, whom I don’t exactly agree with their interpretation of Fundamentalism, has described hyper-Calvinism as being in error. People have read into Calvin stuff that he never wrote, and Camping is one of them. Camping has even gone as far as telling Christians they should not bother praying for someone’s salvation, because God already knows whether or not the person is going to be saved. This was in the early 1980’s. I have examined the Calvinism vs Arminianism debate, and see it as a debate of salvation by grace versus salvation by works. It is indeed salvation by grace, since any effort by works is an exercise in futility, which St Paul eloquently describes in one of his letters, with the Holy Spirit’s guidance of course. Thus my description of Phelps claiming an extreme “off the rails” version of Calvinism which is dead wrong.

Now, is Phelps deliberately misrepresenting not only Calvinism , but Christianity as a whole? To this I would dare say yes, especially after witnessing children associated with the cult spewing such garbage at the RNC Convention. There is nothing in their activities having to do with spreading the Good News. Phelps serves a dividing spirit.

That is my closing argument, and I have no more to say on the subject.

[Agamemnon]

Since the term hyper-Calvinism is a fiction why don't you and Pensacola consider calling the behavior you are describing here something else which is more accurate?

How about "Camping-ism" or "hyper-Camping-ism" or even "hyper-Phelpsism" since neither Calvin nor proper application of what are the tenets of Calvinism resemble anything those clowns are up to?

Why drag Calvin's name down into any of that behavior?

[Fred Hayek]

As I have stated before, any association that these clowns claim to have with Calvin is a perversion of what ever Calvin wrote, even to the point of putting word in Calvin’s mouth, so to speak. Pretzel logic if you will, which is used by a lot of cults. What started this was another board member claiming Phelps to be a Calvinist. Whatever claims Phelps has to Calvinism is either a perversion or a defamation of Calvin. I would tend towards the latter, including Phelps defamation of Christianity as a whole. Especially with his cult’s so-called witnessing style of “you’re going to hell, neener neener neener”, and nothing at all about God’s saving grace. Phelps is a liar, plain and simple. Case closed.
And again, I do not follow certain aspects of Pensacola’s POV (especially when they have a little problem with legalism, but that is a whole ‘nuther discussion). My pastor is a bit of a Pensacola fan, however it is a church that is solidly on the Gospel yet still has a traditional worship style. I don’t go to a church service for a Broadway production or a rock concert.

[HushTX]

I love irony.

Marking this for reference, because certain people I know are going to want to argue with me. This is TOO good.