The 1911 Sucks (Reasoned Argument)

yankeegunnuts.com ^ | 20 December, 2010 | GunNutmegger

[marktwain]

Pretty much sums it up. Jeff Cooper did great things for the gun culture and for personal defense. This doesn't mean that he couldn't get some things wrong. The 1911 was a great gun for its day. It is a classic, but even classics will be improved on. John Moses Browning was a genius, and if you look at a Glock with a little care, you see a John Moses Browning design brought up to speed with modern materials and improvements from what we have learned over the last 100 years.

[marktwain]

To 1911 aficionados: Please note that I posted the above article, I did not write it. It makes a reasoned case.

[Joe Boucher]

I have a Kimber with a red lazer built in.
At a reasonable distance I put a hollow point on that dot.
Love my Kimber

[null and void]

The 1911 has a flawless pedigree. It was designed specifically to kill muslims.

I needn't say more.

[Lurker]

What other 100-year old design is still in daily use?

The M-2 Browning for one.

L

[Mr. Mojo]

I am not surprised that the 1911 is out of place in today’s world, and you shouldn’t be surprised either. What other 100-year old design is still in daily use?

My DA revolver.

[mad_as_he$$]

Please, a 1911 needs tools to disassemble? Lost me right there. Anyone that one and cannot field strip a 1911 in 20 seconds flat with their bare hands has no business owning one.

[Poser]

Reasoned? Not really.

[Blueflag]

Mark — thanks for posting the article. No doubt YOU will get flamed instead of the author ;-)

BUT ... Handgun magazine just ran an article (I’ll have to go to the john and find the article in the stack of ‘library’ material) about how timeless the 1911 design is, AND how good it still is in fact.

Is the 1911 optimized? no. Does its design take full advantage of materials available today? no.

But does it take a likkin’ and keep on tickin’? absolutely.

The fact that the 1911 is a mature design does not make it out-dated or anachronistic. Rather it is proven, reliable, and out-of-the-carton a fine weapon. Perhaps not the best match gun, but as a weapon it’s hard to find a design truly better. (especially in .45 ACP IMHO).

Enjoy the flames. Thanks for posting this DRIVEL!!! ;-p

[mad_as_he$$]

Excellent point:

U.S. M1895 Colt-Browning machine gun
FN Browning M1899/M1900
Colt Model 1900
Colt Model 1902
Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer (.38 ACP)
Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless (.32 ACP)
Colt Model 1905
Remington Model 8 (1906), a long recoil semi-automatic rifle
Colt Model 1908 Vest Pocket (.25 ACP)
Colt Model 1908 Pocket Hammerless (.380 ACP)
FN Model 1910
U.S. M1911 pistol (.45 ACP)
Colt Woodsman pistol
Winchester Model 1885 falling-block single shot rifle
Winchester Model 1886 lever-action repeating rifle
Winchester Model 1887 lever-action repeating shotgun
Winchester Model 1890 slide-action repeating rifle (.22)
Winchester Model 1892 lever-action repeating rifle
Winchester Model 1894 lever-action repeating rifle
Winchester Model 1895 lever-action repeating rifle
Winchester Model 1897 pump-action repeating shotgun
Browning Auto-5 long recoil semi-automatic shotgun
U.S. M1917 water-cooled machine gun
U.S. M1919 air-cooled machine gun
U.S. M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR)
U.S. M2 .50-caliber heavy machine gun of 1921
Remington Model 8 semi-auto rifle
Remington Model 24 semi-auto rifle (.22) Also produced by Browning Firearms (as the SA-22) and several others
Browning Hi-Power (Grand Puissance or GP), the standard sidearm of many military and police forces
The Browning Superposed over/under shotgun was designed by John Browning in 1922 and entered production in 1931

[Lurker]

It’s a 100-year old design. So what. So is the M-2 .50 caliber. I suppose that sucks, too.

It needs tools to disassemble. Maybe if you consider a paper clip a 'tool'. You can detail strip a 1911 quite handily with nothing but your hands and a paper clip.

It has unreliable magazines. Define 'unreliable'.

It is finicky about ammo. Maybe at one time it was. Mine eats everthing from 230 gr ball to 185 grain hp's without so much as a hiccup.

And, as a single-action pistol, it is unsafe for 95% of its users to carry. Really. Does this author mean that 95% of the people who carried this weapon for almost 6 decades were in mortal peril? If he does, he's a fool.

L

[Blueflag]

Perhaps the author means getting WAY down into the trigger mechanism; removing the safety, or simiilar. Who knows.

My Sig P220 comes apart readily with no tools, and goes back together with a little more hand effort than disassembly (OK, 30 sec to reassemble).

Maybe the author is an aspiring Kimber or Glock dealer ;-)

[fuzzybutt]

The 1911 does have a high learning curve and requires much longer training time to master, but for older folks like me that were trained on that type of pistol I will accept no substitute. Personally I am far more adept with a 1911 than every other type combined as I used to shoot competition with one.

For the new “I want it now kids of today” the premise is viable. In the hands of the fully trained a 1911 is dangerous.

The SA gun use I think will go down with us old folks, as well as any notion of freedom.

[Shellback Chuck]

Pretty generalized article. The differences between my Springfield and my Kimber are like night and day.

[mad_as_he$$]

Possible. Yes many modern semi’s can be stripped easily. However, they all have their own issues.

[JoeGar]

For personal defense, try the Taurus Judge: see ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jl-ZIo-Wztc

[OCCASparky]

What other 100-year old design is still in daily use?

Not quite 100 years, but the M2 .50 cal machine gun has been in use for over 90, and still does quite well.

[vetvetdoug]

When the diverse population decides to riot after the economy melts down, this 1911 owner will get some real use out of an obsolete weapon and it will do its job reliably. I also have a Krag 30-40 that will be impressed into service.

[fuzzybutt]

That should have been “not fully trained”

Sorry

[Blueflag]

RE: unreliable magazines.

For my P220, I ONLY use Sig-Sauer factory mags. THEY have no issues.

I quickly determined that the el cheapo mags generated stove pipe jams and or swelled to the point that insertion and removal from the gun became irregular. I literally put them in the trash.

Blame the cheap mag, not the 1911 design.