SHAZAAM !!!
Posted on 11/30/2010 10:30:26 AM PST by jazusamo
As much as I would love to see these weenie mobiles relegated to obscurity, especially when Government Motors is involved, this is a pretty silly argument to make.
To calculate the “true” MPG of our gas guzzlers, should we now start factoring in how much energy was expended to locate the oil, to then drill the oil, to then ship the oil to refineries, to then refine the oil into gasoline, to then truck the gasoline to our gas station....
The associated costs are going to be spread out over a huge volume of gasoline users, but the same can probably be said for users of electricity.
> Many people seem to drive them to make a statement.
That is the biggest reason I hate those things.
I hate the statement their owners are trying to make.
Every greenie weenie around here that can afford them has at least one of those pieces of junk.
By my reckoning, they are debris with or without snow. Good to know that the snow will sideline them, though.
To calculate the “true” MPG of our gas guzzlers, should we now start factoring in how much energy was expended to locate the oil, to then drill the oil, to then ship the oil to refineries, to then refine the oil into gasoline, to then truck the gasoline to our gas station....
He's not figuring in the energy required to mine and transport the coal, or the cost of installing and maintaining the power grid. He's just calculating how much fuel had to be burned to power the car.
In the end, while I like diesels, the bottom line in the electric vs. diesel argument is this:
Coal is bought from places in America that vote for conservatives. Oil comes from places in the middle east that want to kill us.
SHAZAAM !!!
There’s a lot to be said for comfort and having a vehicle that will carry a load when you need to. The roller skates they’re putting out now don’t cut it and I wouldn’t drive one just from the safety standpoint.
And don’t forget about 6600 Watts/hour to charge it; installation of the charger; etc, etc, &c, &c...
“Did you remember to carry da bum? Good!”
....
I’m with you.
Our “new car” is a 2002 VW Golf TDI - we just love diesels! It has 145,000 miles on it.
Oh yeah, I also have a a vintage sports car that get 18 MPG, but it goes fast.
Older (1950s-60s vintage units)are that low. The 1970s and 80s supercritical boilers were in the 35-40% range and now ultra supercritical coal-fired boilers are at 45%+ efficient.
Materials technologies of the last 30-40 years have given boiler manufactures a lot more margin on running at much higher temperatures and steam pressures which improves efficiency.
But 33kw of coal is a lot cheaper than 33kw of gasoline. So this only matters if you really cared how much gasoline you were burning, rather than how much money it was going to cost you to drive your car.
My July electric bill was $114.87 for 1059 KWH. That’s 10.84 cents per KWH. But that includes fixed costs; my variable cost for another KWH is actually 9 cents.
So the 100 miles in the leaf, which uses 34kwh, will cost me 34*9= $3.06. Gas is currently $2.85/gallon here in my home town, so my “gasoline PRICE equivalent is 1.07 gallons, which gives me a MPG PRICE equivalent of 93 mpg.
That takes into account ALL the costs of delivering my electricity to me, since those costs are built into the price I pay for the electricity.
That’s a pretty good deal. My Prius is about 45 mpg, so I’d cut my costs in half by switching to a Leaf. If you currently get 30mpg in a standard car, you’d cut your costs by 2/3rds.
Note that the amount you saved is proportional to what you currently spend. So the 1/2 I save isn’t 33% better than the 2/3rds you’d save — since my current costs are 33% lower than the person getting 30mpg.
TO determine savings, you need to invert everything, and count miles driven.
If you drive 10,000 miles a year, assuming gas at $2.85 and electricity at the 9cents/kwh, you get these savings based on your current MPG (the leaf would cost 10,000/100*34*0.09 = $306.
10mpg (2850) = $2540 (89%)
20mpg (1425) = $1118 (78%)
30mpg (950) = $643 (68%)
45mpg (633) = $326 (52%)
60mpg (475) = $168 (35%)
Note how the “percent” savings looks great, but since your original costs go down as you increase your mileage, the absolute savings is much less. Replacing a 10mpg car with a leaf, assuming they were equivalent for you, would be a great investment, because you’d pay off the difference in a few years of savings.
But you’d NEVER save enough to make it worthwhile to trade in a 45mpg car.
Note this interesting point:
10mpg -> 20mpg = $1425 savings.
45mpg -> 90mpg = $326 savings.
Even though the two upgrades both double your gas mileage, it’s worth a LOT more to double the gas mileage of a low-mpg car than a high mpg car.
This is why comparing MPG numbers is really the WRONG way to figure out costs, and also why the car companies love it. You think you are getting a great deal going from 30mpg to 35mpg, and it’s meaningless.
Instead, we should rate cars in gallons per 100 miles:
10mpg = 10
20mpg = 5
45mpg = 2.2
50mpg = 2
90mpg = 1.1
See, now it is clear that the 10->20mpg upgrade is worth a lot more savings (5) than the 45->90mpg upgrade (1.1).
A Prius is shown to get better gas mileage if a girl drives.
At least that’s what the scientific study I did comparing my MPG with my wife’s MPG shows.
That’s why we should compare cost of energy, rather than amount of energy. Nobody cares how many kilowatts of power you used; what we care about is how much it costs to go a mile.
The Leaf is a lot less expensive per mile than a gasoline-powered car, unless your electricity is really expensive. That’s because electric power generation is a lot more efficient than your car’s conversion of gasoline to motion.
The
I’ve got a V12 and I get around 22-25 on the freeway as I pass piuses.
how do you subtract out the “inefficiencies” of standard gas powered cars? why not just use cost per mile and ROI?
but I bet drilling a hole in he ground is cheaper than running a natural gas powered power station(?)
The Volt is a coal burner.
Should list fuel consumption of Volt as lbs of coal per mile.
You don't 'just drill a hole in the ground'.
The Volt is a nuclear burner.
Should list fuel consumption of Volt as grams of uranium per mile.
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