Posted on 11/14/2010 10:31:23 AM PST by Pacothecat
The north would speak german
With this statement you disregard states which seceded for a different reason; they objected to Linoln using force to coerce states to remain in the Union.
You have just struck the nail firmly on the head. If the South had truly wanted independence above all, they just had to announce a program for emancipation, even a very gradual and compensated one.
Britain and France would have immediately recognized the CSA and the blockade would have quickly ended, opening the South to world trade, arms, etc. Under such conditions the North would have been incapable of conquering the South.
The US Navy of the time wasn't even close to being a match for the RN.
That the few attempts to float such notions were quickly quashed, even late in the war, indicates the protection of slavery was infinitely more important to the South than its independence. In fact, the basic reason they wanted independence was so they could protect their peculiar institution.
Interesting quote. Smells spurious to me, but I'm willing to be convinced otherwise.
Do you have an actual source as to when, where and to whom he said this? I googled it, but all I could find were various CSA-revisionist sites passing it around as a "genuine Lincoln quote" which I find less than completely convincing.
If indeed he did say it, it would have had to be in the last few months of his life, as prior to that it wasn't at all clear he had saved the Union.
The creation of the welfare state should have thoroughly disabused you of that notion.
Yes, a far more likely scenario. And can you imagine among other things the different currency each state or ‘’federation’’ or whatever would have. How about one state decides to cut a deal with China or some Third World shithole for whatever and suddenly there’s a Chinese Red Army division sitting in the middle of North Carolina or something.
Fair enough. But slavery was at the root of the deepening conflict between North and South. Not every slaveowner was in favor of secession, but those who led the movement usually were strongly pro-slavery or at least passionately concerned about the survival of the system of subjugation, so one can't just dismiss the importance of slavery to the era.
Considering the precedent that the Jeff Davis regime set, it's likely that your confederacy would have been even worse.
War of Southern Rebellion, actually.
And it really wasn’t about Slavery as much as it was a war about State’s rights, which is happening today.
State's right to do what?
The Constitution guarantees each state two senators. I'm not aware of any clause in it which guarantees equal sectional representation.
Yes. Bankers from New York and Massachusetts who wanted to keep the money flowing from the human beings in the South.
That's an interesting way of showing your racial tolerance.
You can bold whatever you want. It won't change the fact that Lincoln never said that.
It's always somebody else, even though, when you look at the things people say it can be hard to distinguish other people's hatreds from one's own comments, at least as far as intensity of animosity goes.
It's like: "I have criticisms. You have antipathies. They are haters." Bigots, too.
I doubt you'll find many haters bigoted against things Southern here. It's just that people get tired of the Foghorn Leghorn or Senator Claghorn routines.
People just react to that kind of chauvinism negatively.
most south bashers here have their own skin in the game
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and you are right. Their past posts usually tell the real reason.
God Bless you people in the South. You are the repository of all that was good in America before the country went to Hell...
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:) Thank you and come on down. It’s beautiful, the beaches are beautiful and the water is warm. Fishing is great. I could go on and on.
This is my south:
My south is full of honest, hardworking people. My south is the birthplace of blues and jazz, and rock n’ roll. It has banjo pickers and fiddle players, but it also has B. B. King, Muddy Waters, the Allman Brothers, Emmylou Harris and Elvis.
My south is hot.
My south smells of newly mowed grass.
My south is creek swimming, cane-pole fishing, and bird hunting.
In my south, football is king.
My south is home to the most beautiful women on the planet.
In my south, soul food and country cooking are the same thing.
My south is full of fig preserves, cornbread, butter beans, fried chicken, grits and catfish. In my south we also eat fois gras, caviar, and truffles.
In my south, our transistor radios introduced us to the Beatles and the Rolling Stones at the same time they were introduced to the rest of the country. We also watched the Partridge Family, Hawaii Five-O, Bonanza, and Ed Sullivan with the rest of the country.
In my south, grandmothers cooked a big dinner every Sunday.
In my south, family matters, deeply.
My south is boiled shrimp, blackberry cobbler, peach ice cream, and banana pudding.
In my south people put peanuts in bottles of Coca Cola and hot sauce on almost everything.
My south has air-conditioning.
My south is camellias, azaleas, dogwoods, wisteria, magnolias, gardenias, and hydrangeas.
In my south, the only person that has to sit on the back of the bus is the last person that got on the bus.
In my south, people still say, “yes, ma’am,” “no, ma’am,” “please” and “thank you.”
In my south, we all wear shoes ... most of the time.
My south is the best-kept secret in the country. Please continue to keep the secret ... it keeps the idiots away.
It’s always about race with you. We know you have black neighbors, and blacks across the street. Well goody for you. You...are... literally....obsessed with race. You have skin in the game, and you need to try to get over it. Do you realize that down here in the South we never even think about it? Unlike you Yankees who make everything about race.
Did your hero ole honest Abe say this?
“I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races – that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.”
by:
Abraham Lincoln
(1809-1865) 16th US President
Source:
Fourth Debate with Stephen A. Douglas at Charleston, Illinois, September 18, 1858
(The Collected Works of Abraham Lincoln edited by Roy P. Basler, Volume III, pp. 145-146.)
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