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To: artaxerces
Yes it mentions 500 million having $2/day or less but goes on to say "Communist Party's model of growth could soon collapse unless it allows China's 800 million rural people more of a say"

I do not assume that the 300 million difference consists of people happy with their lot in life under the Chi-Com. They may have incomes of more than $2 / day however but still be classified as poor.

BTW, I hope that I have been as polite as you have. Sometimes in these discussions by this time I've received some classic contumely to add to my collection.

BTW, yes clearly it's not classic Marxism but would you believe, about 90 per cent of China's billionaires are the children of high-ranking [Communists] officials. My reply #27.

40 posted on 06/11/2010 10:22:40 PM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: WilliamofCarmichael
Your perspective of China does carry some degree of truth to it. But we need to keep in mind, its not an issue of whose system of government is better, but rather, what are the Chinese doing to address poverty in their country.

Let me address it from another angle, rather than discussing who is getting $2/day and how many or who are the billionaires, etc.

In 1980, China's power grid was roughly 50,000 MegaWatt (MW). 50 GigaWatts (GW) for ease of arguement. The US on the other hand, had a power grid that produced 500 GW, ten times the size of China. Today, both China and the US have roughly 1,000 GW, with the US a hair more and the Chinese a hair less.

In order to sustain this industrial growth, China had to insulate her economy from the West while exposing it where she could compete, and that is in the area of selling her cheap labor. If the West had had her way with China, China would have become a playground for the West, opening resorts, casinos, cruise lines to China, etc. Much like Cuba in the 1950's. In fact, China of the 1920's and 1930's (especially around Shangahi) was like a giant version of 1950's Cuba (except without the latin music :). Where the buying power of the West simply comandeered their economies however the West wanted them to and not how those countries wanted to develop.

China's economic model is an ever changing set of policies based on their current level of economic development. And here is the kicker; their policies, is based on what they learned at Harvard Business Schools, Oxford Business Schools, etc. And before 1980, they were also applying Western economic thought, it was called Marxism (and obviously, it didn't work).

Getting back to my electricity argument, obviously, China is better off today than 1980, when electricity production was only 1/10th the size of the US. Today, it is about equal. However, the flip side is that China has over four times (4X) the population of the US and obviously does not have the standard of living of the US. And it is evident in that the average Chinese has less than 1/4 of the electricity available to them than their American counter part.

The question now is, will China, continue to evolve her economic policies in such a way, so that she can be producing 4,000 GW of electricity by 2040-2050 time frame. This isn't an issue of who has the better economic model, but how does China adjust her economic policies in the backdrop of a Western World suspicious of her economic rise.

China has been slowly exposing more and more of her economy to the world as she continues to grow economically. But exposing those areas only until it is clear she can compete and it benefits her. If she doesn't do that, she will return to the days of "Old Shanghai". That probably wouldn't hurt the feelings of Westerners, but its not the way the Chinese people want to go.

41 posted on 06/13/2010 3:31:05 PM PDT by ponder life
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