Posted on 06/07/2010 8:48:28 AM PDT by Seizethecarp
(Quoting InspectorSmith (Lucas Smith):
Registration of births in Kenya was introduced in 1904 but only applied to Americans and Europeans.
As we can all see now, a HOSPITAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE OR BIRTH RECORD WOULD BE ALL THAT A KENYAN BORN IN MOMBASA WOULD HAVE ALL THE WAY UP UNTIL the year 1971.
There is, however, an interesting twist in that while President Barack Obama's father was an African........his (President Barack Obama's) mother was an American.......so......which law was used???
African born in Kenya law??? Or American / European born in Kenya law???
If the African birth law was used then all that there would have ever been is a HOSPITAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE OR HOSPITAL RECORD (at least up until 1971, and maybe not even then, I doubt the law was applied retroactively).
If the American / European birth was used then we would have TWO records. A hospital birth certificate and a Protectorate / Colony of Kenya birth registration / birth certificate.
I have also just tonight added this document to my scribd.com account (Patriot1980).
http://www.scribd.com/Patriot1980
"Republic of Kenya. Ministry of State for Immigration and Registration of Persons. Nyayo House. 2006"
(Excerpt) Read more at youtube.com ...
http://www.scribd.com/doc/32298513/Republic-of-Kenya-Ministry-of-State-for-Immigration-and-Registration-of-Persons-Nyayo-House-2006
BEGIN QUOTE of Lucas Smith's entire comments:
Here's some information regarding births in Kenya prior to 1964. This information comes from the Kenyan Government in 2006.
"Identification in Kenya is traced from 1915 when the British colonial government passed the Native Registration Ordinance in which, it was mandatory for all adult male Africans to register and carry identification papers. The Registration of Persons Ordinance Cap 50 of 1947 made mandatory for all male persons of 16 years and above to register."
"This Ordinance became the Registration of Persons Act Cap 107 of the Laws of Kenya in 1963. This Act was amended in 1978 to provide for the registration of both male and female and create the Department of National Registration Bureau. An amendment of the Act in 1980 changed the registration age to eighteen (18) years."
"Civil Registration Services"
"Registration of births and deaths was introduced for the first time in Kenya in 1904 and applied only to Europeans and Americans."
"In 1928 the current Act CAP. 149 was enacted. This Act only provided for the compulsory registration of the deaths of Africans but not for their births."
"After independence in 1963 compulsory registration of all births and deaths was extended in phases to other areas beginning with Nairobi and Nyeri on 1st March 1963. On 1st September 1971 it became compulsory to register all births and deaths occurring in Kenya."
You can find all of that data in a PDF at:
http://www.mirp.go.ke/Service_Charter.pdf
I encourage everyone to download a copy of it now while you still can.
Strangely enough, I, Lucas Smith, was not the one that found this information. GreatKim aka Mik Tearg found it back on April 28th, 2010. In one of her / his feigned acts of an attempt to be objective and open mined she / he sent the link to this PDF from the Kenyan Government.
As we can see from this information, registration of African births in Kenya was not obligatory or compulsive until September of the year 1971.
Registration of births in Kenya was introduced in 1904 but only applied to Americans and Europeans.
As we can all see now, a HOSPITAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE OR BIRTH RECORD WOULD BE ALL THAT A KENYAN BORN IN MOMBASA WOULD HAVE ALL THE WAY UP UNTIL the year 1971.
There is, however, an interesting twist in that while President Barack Obama's father was an African........his (President Barack Obama's) mother was an American.......so......which law was used???
African born in Kenya law??? Or American / European born in Kenya law???
If the African birth law was used then all that there would have ever been is a HOSPITAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE OR HOSPITAL RECORD (at least up until 1971, and maybe not even then, I doubt the law was applied retroactively).
If the American / European birth was used then we would have TWO records. A hospital birth certificate and a Protectorate / Colony of Kenya birth registration / birth certificate.
I have also just tonight added this document to my scribd.com account (Patriot1980).
http://www.scribd.com/Patriot1980
"Republic of Kenya. Ministry of State for Immigration and Registration of Persons. Nyayo House. 2006"
END QUOTE from Lucas Smith
BEGIN QUOTE from bsteadman1, commmenter
bsteadman1 (5 days ago) [1 of 2] LUCAS - CONGRATULATIONS ON YOUR VERY SIGNIFICANT INDEPENDENT RESEARCH AND SUBSEQUENT ADDITION OF PERTINENT INFORMATION TO THE KENYAN BC RELATED DATA BASE FOR BHO!
The information you obtained from the referenced document "Republic of Kenya. Ministry of State for Immigration and Registration of Persons. Nyayo House. 2006 Service Charter" is HUGE.
One point jumped out immediately to me and it relates to a statement made in the same article by "Dr. Conspiracy" we both referenced earlier. ("Lucas Smith certificate makes African genesis less plausible", May 30, 2010, Obama Conspiracy Theories, obamaconspiracy-dot-org)
In the article, Dr. Conspiracy states, "The Smith certificate nails down the name "Barack Hussein Obama II." Birth indexes in Kenya are open records. Lucas Smith claims to have traveled to Kenya and anti-Obama author Jerome Corsi certainly did. NO ONE REPORTS A BARACK OBAMA LISTED ON THE BIRTH INDEX" (caps emphasis added)
bsteadman1 (5 days ago) [2 of 2] However, it appears to me that this statement by Dr. Conspiracy is totally negated by your 2006 Kenyan Government Document Backed statement that, "... a HOSPITAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE OR BIRTH RECORD WOULD BE ALL THAT A KENYAN BORN IN MOMBASA WOULD HAVE ALL THE WAY UP UNTIL the year 1971."
It seems intuitively likely to me that, during those volatile times just prior the establishment of Kenyan independence, that African-Born-in-Kenya law would be chosen over European-Born-in-Kenya law.
My conclusion is that OBAMA WAS BORN IN MOMBASA IN 1961 TO A KENYAN FATHER AND HIS BIRTH WAS TREATED BUREAUCRATICALLY UNDER THE AFRICAN-BORN-IN-KENYA LAW IN EFFECT AT THE TIME. THEREFORE, HIS SON, BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA II, DOES NOT APPEAR ON THE KENYAN BIRTH INDEX.
END QUOTE from bsteadman1
America was hood-winked by the DNC and those that
lied in the MSM to the American public.
If born in Kenya, would BHO II have been registered by the state as the child of an American (required under colonial law) or not registered by the state (not required for children of Kenyan natives)?
BHO II reportedly does not show up in the Kenya state birth index which would have been required for Europeans and Americans only. This would be consistent with Smith's CPMG BC, a non-state hospital BC, if BHO II was considered to be the child of a Kenyan native and not the child of an American.
1 Certified copy of original birth certificate
2 Columbia University transcripts
3 Columbia thesis paper
4 Campaign donor analysis requested by 7 major watchdog groups
5 Harvard University transcripts
6 Illinois State Senate records
7 Illinois State Senate schedule
8 Law practice client list and billing records/summary
9 Locations and names of all half-siblings and step-mother
10 Medical records (only the one page summary released so far)
11 Occidental College Transcripts
12 Parent’s marriage Certificate
13 Record of baptism
14 Selective Service registration records
(Did Obama Actually Register for Selective Service?
This supposed revelation of 0's SS records has been debunked here and here.)
15 Schedules for trips outside of the United States before 2007
16 Passport records for all passports
17 Scholarly articles
18 SAT and LSAT test scores
19 Access to his grandmother in Kenya
20 List of all campaign workers that are lobbyists
21 Punahou grade school records
22 Noelani Kindergarten records are oddly missing from the the State of Hawaii Department of Education.
23 Page 11 of Stanley Ann Dunham's divorce decree.
24 Why isn't Barack Obama still a member of the Illinois bar and where are all of the relevant documents?
25 Why isn't Michelle Obama still a member of the Illinois bar, after only about four years of practice, and where are all of the relevant documents?
Anyone who cares about their country would be very concerned that a POTUS had hidden every scrap of information of his life that he possibly could.
“America was hood-winked by the DNC....”
.
Only because the GOP, and particularly McCain, had no backbone and did not have the courage to question the DNC’s deception.
Or perhaps the DNC and GOP were, and still are, in it together — ever thought of that?
IMHO...his father was American(his purported grandfather-Stanley Armour Dunham)...and his mother Kenyan...and he may be listed under her name....
Very, very interesting.
Pinging a few names FYI.
Hhhhhmmmmmmm --
“It seems intuitively likely to me that, during those volatile times just prior the establishment of Kenyan independence, that African-Born-in-Kenya law would be chosen over European-Born-in-Kenya law.”
The following is a minor point and it is obviously strictly a conjecture on my part.
Back in 1961, I think Kenyan BUREAUCRATS, either at the hospital or province level, probably would have had the greatest influence in determining which law (African-Born-In-Kenya or American/European-Born-In-Kenya) would be followed in the case of BHO’s birth to a Kenyan father and American mother at CPGH in Mombasa.
However, IF either of the parents had any say whatsoever in the matter, I think it likely that BOTH the father and the mother would have chosen to have the birth treated under the African-Born-In-Kenya law.
The FATHER would have been proud to have his son, and newest member of the Luo tribe, considered African. The MOTHER would have wanted the simplest and least conspicuous record possible for her son and that would be for him to be considered African. After all, she was planning on phoning her mom in Hawaii as soon as possible to get little BHO set up with an easily-obtainable Hawaiian BC, with all the perks afforded American citizens.
As usual Lucas is making a fool of himself. He is now spreading his incredible discovery(which I “passed” him here at FP) as proof that only hospitals issued BC’s in 1961. Baloney ! And let’s see why. Correctly Lucas understands that gvt issued BCs where in Colonial Times mandatory only for Europeans and Americans (clearly we must understand white Americans). He believes that Kenyan where prohibited from acquiring BCs frome the public registrar. False ! All kenyans where entitled, only it was not mandatory. Wht do I need ? I need some evidence about black Kenyans holding Birth Certificates from before the 60’s. Well here they arem reliable official source. Enjoy Mr.Lucas:
http://www.kenyalaw.org/update/index.php
Kenyalaw
http://www.kenyalaw.org/family/case_download.php?go=65870173057584911304043
a man exhibits his bc and bn from 1969 in a Kenya Court
“He testified that he was born on 29th
of September 1969 the day his father RKG died. He produced his birth
certificate and notification of birth in evidence as defence exhibit No. 1
(a) and (b).”
http://www.kenyalaw.org/Hansard/download.php?file=../Downloads/Hansard/2006/05/Wednesday,%203rd%20May,%202006%20-%20Afternoon.pdf
birth, you are entitled to birth certificate and at the age of 18, you should apply for an ID card. However, most people do not bother to apply
you are entitled to a BC
many don’t bother
http://www.kenyalaw.org/CaseSearch/case_download.php?go=24300368939474108448106&link=
a bc from 1944
November 1995. the plaintiff also produced his identity and birth certificate showing that the plaintiff was born in 1944
http://www.kenyalaw.org/family/statutes/download.php?file=The%20Children%20Act,%202001.pdf
http://www.kenyalaw.org/CaseSearch/view_preview.php?link=752700757648227293492&words=
court ruling
sfl
And now Seizethecarp ?
How are going to explain that kenyan man who in a succession dispute provides the Court with his BC from 1944 ?
How are you going to explain that alla Kenyans were entitled to BC even though it was not mandatory to obtain it ?
Your conclusion that only hospitals could produce BCs for black Kenyans until 1971 is ridiculous. CPGH is a public hospital, part of the national health care system, do you really think that such an institution could produce non-government documents ? The main reason for the BC not being mandatory was the difficulty of setting up the registrar in all parts of Kenya, obliging people from remote villages to travel for days to reach the nearest public registrar. But if these people needed one they could obtain it.
Educated and urban Kenyans allways held BCs, these were in fact required to obtain driving licenses and passports. Also many felt the need to obtain them in order to state their rights in hereditary disputes.
This is not Lucas’ Youtube channel where every attempt to discuss is simply deleted.
Now you need to answer. Now maybe you understand why I sent Lucas the link to the regulation you are using.
Stay well and have Lucas answer.
didn’t Lucas warn you not to post here ?
Now do some good search and discover how Kenyan Public Hospitals have allways produced Birth Notifications. Also find out how the parents had to bring these notifications to the Registrar which then issued the BC.
This is a standard procedure in all public health systems, and Kenya’s is obviously modeled on the British one.
Also find out how Kenyans were allways entitled to bring the hospital notification to the registrar. Now this is not only an entitlement, it is mandatory.
So guess what Lucas ?
Your document is literally an impossible document:
a) he was born in Hawaii
b) it should state Notification of Birth or
c) it should have been issued by the Registrar
d) the Chief Administrator was not in charge on the date of issuing
e) th wrong Chief Admin is mispelled.
Now do some good search and discover how Kenyan Public Hospitals have allways produced Birth Notifications. Also find out how the parents had to bring these notifications to the Registrar which then issued the BC.
This is a standard procedure in all public health systems, and Kenya’s is obviously modeled on the British one.
Also find out how Kenyans were allways entitled to bring the hospital notification to the registrar. Now this is not only an entitlement, it is mandatory.
So guess what Lucas ?
Your document is literally an impossible document:
a) he was born in Hawaii
b) it should state Notification of Birth or
c) it should have been issued by the Registrar
d) the Chief Administrator was not in charge on the date of issuing
e) th wrong Chief Admin is mispelled.
In Kenya, birth association is based on the FATHERS nationality, not the mothers I believe.
what about BLACK Americans?
Really, it does not MATTER where he was born. His father was a foreigner, he was never a US Citizen. Obama cannot be natural born, therefore he is not qualified to be President, and THAT is all anybody really cares about.
Go find someone else to pick on Mik Taerg, nobody really cares about your personal vendetta.
Obama is not Qualified to be President, because he is not a Natural Born Citizen.
We are one step away from losing ours if we do not close the borders and start enforcing our citizenship laws as they were adopted and that means you are either born to an American father(if born in wedlock), born to an American mother(if born out of wedlock) or you are naturalized.
This is a reply that everyone should read, though it is my reply to Great Kim aka Mik Tearg.
I’m not sure why you (Kim aka Kim) continue to follow everything that I write or that others write regarding me, Lucas D. Smith. You investigative skills are egregiously poor and time after time after time I find it more and more difficult to understand how a person that claims to be twice my age can post such immature, poorly researched, non-sightful, and obtuse rubbish and then revel in their findings as if they have made a tremendous new discovery.
I have reviewed each and every link you have provided. You have demonstrated zero evidence in your links and I am dumfounded as to why you have posted these links.
Nowhere, and I mean nowhere, in your links or references is their any mention of an “ORIGINAL” birth certificate or birth records from pre 1964 (or even pre 1971) that is not a hopsital birth record. I don’t even find in your links and indictation at all that these are original birth year records.
Do you get it yet Kim aka Mik? At this point all I can say is that I truly believe that you suffer from some sort of mental disease or mental abberations or neurosis. There’s no way that an intelligent minded person would post such egregiously horrible research and findings. At this point I have no choice but to believe that you probably suffer from some sort of handicap that has made you different from most people. You may have an unusually large head which made you the laughing stock of friends and family and now you are striking out in an attempt to become the greatest investigator of all time....yet...due to you mental abberation you are never quite able to see more than a two or three moves ahead on the chess board. You are never able to really analyze the information effectively.
I feel sorry for you Kim aka Mik. And that’s not meant as an insult. My heart goes out to handicapped individuals who do attempt to make an conspicuous effort to demonstrate their mental abilities and overcome their mental handicap.
Again, Kim aka Mik, you have demonstrated absolutely zero evidence. And in two of your link their is not even a mention of a “birth certificate” but rather onlt talk about birth or children.
The links that do mention a birth certificate DO NOT mention or make an reference to being ORIGINAL birth certificate or ORIGINAL birth records.
The person being born in 1944 could have attained a birth certificate in RECENT times (prior to the new articles pusblish) by requesting one from the Kenya Government.
What is the matter with you Kim aka Mik? You really think that a Kenya born in 1944 cant request a birth certificate from the Kenya Government this VERY MINUTE? If I was born in Kenya in 1921 I could request of a birth certificate this very minute from Kenya, and they would rightfully grant me one. I’d have to have some sort of proof that I was born in Kenya, e.g., affidavit from family, some sort of hospital birth record, pictures, or just anything that would provide enough evidence that I was really born in Kenya.
Do you get in now Kim, or do I need to write all of this out in retard for you?
Also, you forget that the policy was different in different parts of Kenya. Nairobi and Nyeri were ahead of the rest of the country in keeping birth and death records. I have explained this AS IT SAYS SO IN THE 2006 Kenyan PDF.
Again, your links provide ZERO evidence, i.e., no evidence. What were you thinking? Are you able to think more than just a few moves ahead? How do you survive in the real world? Can you handle a walk to the grocery store or do nice young people bring groceries to your house because that little feeble minded Kim aka Mik can’t manage getting the groceries from the cart up to the counter, and then paying with money or bank card...wow...that might require just a little too much math for little Kim aka Mik.
And just what is Kim aka Mik? Are you man or are you woman? You once told me that you were a man but from your months or posts and messages you reply to me in a womanly way. If you are gay please stop replying in a feminine way. It’s not that I’m against gays, it’s just that I only like woman and I’d like gay people to respect my right to being hetrosexual. You get it?? I’m not gay bashing gay people like you, I just want a little respect as a hetrosexual man that loves women, ok? So if you are gay that is fine, just don’t write to me in a feminine way ok? It gives me the creeps.
Moving on. Even though you have presented ZERO evidence of an African birth certificate in Kenya prior to 1964 (or 1971) I will address the issue in detail for your birdish brain.
Let’s assume that these Kenyans you refer to (prior to 1964 and 1971) do have original birth certificates from their birth years. (Remember, nowhere in you links do they claim that they do).
But let’s assume that they do. What’s wrong with them having birth certificates????? President Barack Hussein Obama II has an original birth year certificate from Kenya in 1961. You know why???? They MIGHT HAVE ORIGINAL birth year birth certificates BECAUSE IT’s a HOSPITAL BIRTH CERTIFCATE.
The hospitals in Kenya made a record of every birth and death. God Kim, again it’s difficult for me not to just break down and send you a little money (donation) so that you can finally go in an get the cleft pallet worked on and maybe a little grinding around the jaw to fix you underbite and maybe somehow, if it’s possible, do something about that awkward walk. God, what life must be like for you. No romantic relationships, no opportunity to sire children of your own. God, it’s got to be rough.
You get in now Kim aka Mik? A Kenyan born in 1920 might have an original birth record from their year of birth but, it’s a hospital birth record, just like President Obama has.
There may be execptions to rule, of course, in different areas of Kenya. After all, I haven’t read anywhere in my research that said it was illegal for the government to make record of African births in Kenya prior to 1964 (or 1971). BUT, it wasn’t manidtory.
You get now Kim aka Mik? It wasn’t MANDITORY. That means (for you birdish brian) that is was compulsory, it wasn’t law that there must be made a record in the government of African births in Kenya.
So, for example (for your bird brain) if someone goes looking for 1961 African births in Kenya, in the government registry, and lets say they have a list of 10 Africans that they know were born in 1961 in Kenya. Maybe they will find NONE of them listed in the government rigistry, OR, maybe they will find two (2) listed and the other eight not listed anywhere (except for hospital records).
You get it now Kim, because I don’t speak retard very well and if you haven’t understood yet than I just don’t know how else to articulate for a mantally challenged individual.
Again where is your evidence. What’s with all the bird brain links?
Here, I’ll make it easy for you.
1. Find some evidence that says that an African that was born in Kenya prior to 1963 has with him an orginal birth certificate issued from the Govenment The Protectorate of Kenya or The Colony or Kenya. And remember, it can’t be a hospital birth certificate.
2. Make sure it’s from Mombasa, a certainly NOT Nairobi.
3. If you can’t do the above then just find me ONE image or picture of a government issued birth certificate for an African baby from pre 1963 government of The Protectorate of Kenya or The Colony of Kenya. (Please don’t Photoshop one either).
If I were you Kim aka Mik I’d be tremendously embarresed to make further postings. But do as you please. I probably will not respond. I have only responded here to you because I want to support Seizetehcarp for bring this new thread and I don’t want you (Kim aka Mik) throwing the reader of Seizethecarp’s great new thread down the rabbit hole into Kim’s aka Mik’s land of the walking retards.
Good bye.
Respectfully,
Lucas Daniel Smith
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