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To: rxsid; patlin; BP2; El Gato; Red Steel
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222 posted on 07/07/2010 5:40:10 PM PDT by bushpilot1
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To: bushpilot1
good find, what is the reference? I made it through Aristotle & started on Cicero, but had to take a break. He is much harder to consume, so am taking on Locke now as he is referenced quite often in Wilson's commentaries on American Law 1791 in which he quoted Locke:

§. 118. . . It is plain then, by the practice of governments themselves, as well as by the law of right reason, that a child is born a subject of no country or government. He is under his father's tuition and authority, till he comes to age of discretion ; and then he is a freeman, at liberty what government he will put himself under, what body politic he will unite himself to: for if an Englishman's son, born in France, be at liberty, and may do so, it is evident there is no tie upon him by his father's being a subject of this kingdom; nor is he bound up by any compact of his ancestors. And why then hath not his son, by the same reason, the same liberty, though he be born any where else?

Since the power that a father hath naturally over his children, is the same, wherever they be born, and the ties of natural obligations are not bounded by the positive limits of kingdoms and commonwealths.

§. 119. Every man being, as has been shewed, naturally free, and nothing being able to put him into subjection to any earthly power, but only his own consent; it is to be considered, what shall be understood to be a sufficient declaration of a man's consent, to make him subject to the laws of any government.

http://books.google.com/books?id=AM9qFIrSa7YC&printsec=frontcover&dq=%22two+treatises+on+government%22+Locke&hl=en&ei=XTA2TLeuIcH68Aa00LmyAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=269&f=false

Webster's American Dictionary of the English Language (both 1828 & 1846 editions):

ALIEN: 1. Foreign, not belonging to the same country, land or government; 2. belonging to one who is not a citizen

http://books.google.com/books?id=0UM-AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA1080&dq=Webster’s+American+Dictionary+of+the+English+Language&hl=en&ei=psM2TILvF8OblgfCnrHVBw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=alien&f=false

Now of course Webster goes go on to cite the French & British definitions, but then we are talking about those who are born alien to America, not to the French or the British. Also, and end note to the drones & obots, a read of the Book of Genesis might help you to understand the the beginnings of natural law & the father as the sovereign over the child until the child comes of age and established his own territory, thereby establishing his own sovereignty over his descendants. It's all quite basic when one has the ability to reason with rationality.

223 posted on 07/09/2010 12:19:05 AM PDT by patlin (Ignorance is Bliss for those who choose to wear rose colored glasses)
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To: bushpilot1; rxsid; BP2; El Gato; Red Steel
John Locke:

§. 102. He must shew a strange inclination to deny evident matter of fact, when it agrees not with his hypothesis, who will not allow, that the beginning of Rome and Venice were by the uniting together of several men free and independent one of another, amongst whom there was no natural superiority or subjection. And if Joseph us Acosta's word may be taken, he tells us, that in many parts of America there was no government at all. “ There are great and apparent conjectures,” says he, “that these men, speaking of those of Peru, for a long time had neither kings nor commonwealths, but lived in troops, as they do to this day in Florida, the Cheriquanas, those of Brazil, and many other nations, which have no certain kings, but as occasion is offered, in peace or war, they “ choose their captains as they please,” 1. i. c.25. If it be said, that every man there was born subject to his father, or the head of his family; that the subjection due from a child to a father took not away his freedom of uniting into what political society he thought fit, has been already proved. But be that as it will, these men, it is evident, were actually free; and whatever superiority some politicians now would place in any of them, they themselves claimed it not, but by consent were all equal, till by the same consent they set rulers over themselves. So that their politic societies all began from a voluntary union, and the mutual agreement of men freely acting in the choice of their governors, and forms of government!

§. 103. And I hope those who went away from Sparta with Palantus, mentioned by Justin, 1. iii. c. 4. will be allowed to have been freemen independent one of another, and to have set up a government over themselves, by their own consent. Thus I have given several examples out of history, of people free and in the state of nature, that being met together incorporated and began a commonwealth. And if the want of such instances be an argument to prove that government were not, nor could not be so begun, I suppose the contenders for paternal empire were better to let it alone, than urge it against natural liberty : for if they can give so many instances, out of history, of governments begun upon paternal right, I think (though at best an argument from what has been, to what should of right be, has no great force) one might, without any great danger, yield them the cause. But’ if I might advise them in the case, they would do well not to search too much into the original of governments, as they have begun de facto, lest they should find, at the foundation of most of them, something very little favourable to the design they promote, and such a power as they contend for.

§. 104. But to conclude, reason being plain on our side, that men are naturally free, and the examples of history shewing, that the governments of the world, that were begun in peace, had their beginning laid on that foundation, and were made by the consent of the people; there can be little room for doubt, either where the right is, or what has been the opinion, or practice of mankind, about the first erecting of governments.

§. 105. I will not deny, that if we look back as far as history will direct us, towards the original of commonwealths, we shall generally find them under the government and administration of one man. And I am also apt to believe, that where a family was numerous enough to subsist by itself, and continued entire together, without mixing with others, as it often happens, where there is much land, and few people, the government commonly began in the father.

224 posted on 07/09/2010 12:47:40 AM PDT by patlin (Ignorance is Bliss for those who choose to wear rose colored glasses)
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