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To: Outership
What you posted was altered from the original verse

NO.

IT.

WAS.

NOT.

If you don't like the translation, that's your problem. Not mine. Don't try to impose your problems on me.

it was even altered in such a fundamental way

Sez You.

Again, don't attempt to impose your problems on me, and don't presume to impose your personal interpretation of Scripture on anybody.

BTW, "to repent" is a transitive verb. It is an action, a work. Even your preferred translation contradicts your personal interpretation of Scripture.

IMHO.

Fixed messed up HTML.

83 posted on 04/26/2010 1:59:06 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilization is Aborting, Buggering, and Contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: ArrogantBustard

Yes, it was altered. As proof, here is the verse from 14 different translations:

New International Version
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

New Living Translation
Not at all! And you will perish, too, unless you repent of your sins and turn to God.

English Standard Version
No, I tell you; but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

New American Standard Bible
“I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

International Standard Version
Absolutely not, I tell you! But if you don’t repent, then you, too, will all die.

GOD’S WORD® Translation
No! I can guarantee that they weren’t. But if you don’t turn to God and change the way you think and act, then you, too, will all die.

King James Bible
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

American King James Version
I tell you, No: but, except you repent, you shall all likewise perish.

American Standard Version
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all in like manner perish.

Bible in Basic English
I say to you, It is not so: but if your hearts are not changed, you will all come to the same end.

Darby Bible Translation
No, I say to you, but if ye repent not, ye shall all perish in the same manner.

English Revised Version
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all in like manner perish.

Webster’s Bible Translation
I tell you, No; but except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Weymouth New Testament
I tell you, certainly not. On the contrary, if you are not penitent you will all perish as they did.

World English Bible
I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all perish in the same way.

Young’s Literal Translation
No — I say to you, but, if ye may not reform, all ye even so shall perish.

It *is* your problem. Do you have *any* idea of the magnitude of the punishment for altering Bible verses and then teaching them? The verse was altered in a way that DIRECTLY leads people away from the Saving Grace of Christ and towards eternal punishment.

Repenting is not a work that when performed will earn you salvation. No matter how hard you try you will never go your entire life without sinning, and that is what is required to be saved through your own self. That was the lesson of the Law in the Old Testament.

Salvation is a gift and could never, ever be earned by anyone. No matter what you do. I.e. no penance. Salvation is freely given as the ultimate act of love to anyone who asks for it. Anyone. Once you have it, do your best not to sin. Not because doing so will save you, you are already saved. Repent because your Lord asked you to. If you are really His, if He is your King, you would follow and obey Him. That’s why you can tell who is His from their fruits.


86 posted on 04/26/2010 3:37:07 PM PDT by Outership (Looking for a line by line Book of Revelation Bible study? http://tiny.cc/rPSQc)
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To: ArrogantBustard; Outership
In the Greek the word is μετανοητε which translates into metanoias or metanonite

met·a·noi·a   /ˌmɛtəˈnɔɪə/ Spelled[met-uh-noi-uh]
–noun
a profound, usually spiritual, transformation; conversion.

Origin:
1870–75; < Gk metánoia change of mind, repentance; see meta-, -noia

Now there is a Greek word for penance or penitence which is μετάνοια

μετανοητε = Repent
μετάνοια = Penance

The words are similar in there roots, but Greek being a more accurate language than english has more meanings or I should say more DETAILED meanings.

pen·ance   /ˈpɛnəns/ Show Spelled[pen-uhns]
–noun
1. a punishment undergone in token of penitence for sin.
2. a penitential discipline imposed by church authority.
3. a sacrament, as in the Roman Catholic Church, consisting in a confession of sin, made with sorrow and with the intention of amendment, followed by the forgiveness of the sin.

The difference between the to words is μετανοητε pretty much means a confession and change of heart. μετάνοια means punishment or discpline ALONG with the confession or change of heart.

Now lets take a look at the verse-in the NASB (Just for ease of reading.

1Now on the same occasion there were some present who reported to Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices.

2And Jesus said to them, "Do you suppose that these Galileans were greater sinners than all other Galileans because they suffered this fate?

3"I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.

4"Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem?

5"I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish."

Now this is Jesus speaking, which seems more likely in the context? That a man confess and change his heart, or that a man confess, change and serve discipline OR be put to death.

If we go further in the passage a parable is given

6And He began telling this parable: "A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any.

7"And he said to the vineyard-keeper, 'Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?'

8"And he answered and said to him, 'Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer;

9and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.'"

Nowhere in the parable was there discipline for the tree. The tree was nurtured and it changed its ways, or it was to be cut down.

93 posted on 04/26/2010 7:24:08 PM PDT by mountn man (The pleasure you get from life, is equal to the attitude you put into it.)
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