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APRIL 25, 1980--THE DAY JIMMY CARTER KNEW HE WAS A ONE-TERM PRESIDENT
ThirdWaveDave ^ | April 25, 2010 | Dave Logan

Posted on 04/25/2010 6:22:04 PM PDT by patriotgal1787

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To: patriotgal1787; Kansas58; Ronin; Vigilanteman
Carter insisted on micromanaging the rescue efforts. That is what doomed the entire mission.

Correct. The original plan involved two aircraft carriers launching a full load of Army helicopters. The choppers would land in the desert and refuel from a KC-130, while the rescue force drove into Teheran in trucks carried in on the choppers. Knockout gas would be used to eliminate any resistance. Then they'd drive back out to the desert, load the hostages into the freshly refueled helicopters, blow up the trucks and leave.

Carter was paranoid about Iranian intelligence, but since the Shah's government had just fallen and most of the defense and intel apparatus was loyal to the Shah, he was exaggerating the risk enormously. First, he cut the task force in half, from two carriers to one, and replaced the Army helicopters (which had sand filters on the engines) with navy helicopters (which had no sand filters). As another Freeper observes below, this reduced the number of helicopters to the bare minimum needed to complete the mission. No reserve and no margin of error.

Second, Carter cancelled a planned "dress rehearsal" at the island of Diego Garcia, in the middle of the Indian Ocean. The only living things on Diego Garcia were a few hundred US Navy sailors, their dependents, and thousands of birds. There was absolutely no chance that the mission's cover would be blown, and the dress rehearsal would have revealed the risk of a mid-air collision between the KC-130 and the helicopters. The tactical plan could have been modified to eliminate this risk if it had been detected.

These two micromanagement actions by Jimmy Carter doomed the mission. If he hadn't cut the rescue force in half, the mission still would have succeeded even after the mid-air collision, because there would have been more helicopters, trucks, troops and other material in reserve; and of course the Navy helicopters were vulnerable to desert dust.

What should have been an Army and Air Force mission from start to finish had portions carved out for the Navy and Marines, and the result was bad.

We needed carriers to move the helicopters into position for the launch. That should have been the limit of the Navy involvement. But Carter was ex-Navy. So he threw in a lot of Navy and Marine personnel into the expeditionary force.

Jimmy Carter was a screw-up from the get-go. The military had recommended a much larger force to launch precision diversions and have some margin of error. Carter insisted on minimal force and minimal footprint. There was absolutely no margin for error. Anyone who has ever been close to the military knows that screw ups and error are inevitable on an operation of this nature. Zero margin for error is a risk worth taking only when there is no alternative.

See above. When the Navy task force was cut in half, it eliminated the reserve force.

41 posted on 04/25/2010 8:03:21 PM PDT by Philo1962 (Iraq is terrorist flypaper. They go there to die.)
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To: Leisler; Philo1962

Thanks so much for the additional details.


42 posted on 04/25/2010 8:18:47 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: patriotgal1787

But I remember Carter coming on TV and telling us that Desert One was “an incomplete success.” How long until Hussein uses that term to describe his programs?


43 posted on 04/25/2010 8:21:45 PM PDT by Neanderthal
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To: dasboot

LOL, I remember President Carter using the phrase, “baloney,” when Reagan was tearing him up in the debate. At one point, he said he asked his daughter Amy about something or other. He was doomed. Of course, we can only hope that zero follows in Carter’s footsteps, 4 years and you’re out! Sounds good to me.


44 posted on 04/25/2010 8:26:49 PM PDT by Catsrus (Have)
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To: patriotgal1787

From the article: “As a president, Carter was weak; as a former president, he’s a disgrace.”

Barry Hussein Obama, the Kenyan born Muslim Marxist, is already a disgrace. Beyond weak. Beyond inept. Obama is an enemy of America and all we hold dear.


45 posted on 04/25/2010 8:26:50 PM PDT by Astronaut
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To: calex59

Excuse me, but, Bush didn’t spend time tearing down the military. Its the DEMRATS who hate the military and cut their budget every time one of them is elected president.


46 posted on 04/25/2010 8:27:57 PM PDT by Catsrus (Have)
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To: Mr. Jazzy

As if Kennedy had any love for the military.


47 posted on 04/25/2010 8:28:46 PM PDT by Catsrus (Have)
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To: Philo1962
and the dress rehearsal would have revealed the risk of a mid-air collision between the KC-130 and the helicopters.

If I'm not mistaken, the collision occurred while the KC-130 and the helicopter were on the ground rather tan in mid-air.

48 posted on 04/25/2010 8:31:49 PM PDT by Bob
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To: RaceBannon

Weren’t you a part of this?


49 posted on 04/25/2010 8:33:29 PM PDT by Vigilantcitizen
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To: Sir Clancelot

One reason I am a member of this site is James Earl Carter.

My sainted mother had us playing along with his 68 degrees thermostat nonsense - remember his ‘cardigan speech?’


50 posted on 04/25/2010 8:36:37 PM PDT by relictele
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To: Kansas58

The EAPS system had absolutely nothing to do with the failure of the mission

The NAVY refused to fly those aircraft enough to keep them flight ready, that is why they failed on their first hard flight test.


51 posted on 04/25/2010 8:41:51 PM PDT by RaceBannon (RON PAUL: THE PARTY OF TRUTHERS, TRAITORS AND UFO CHASERS!!!)
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To: Kansas58

Carter did not micromanage the rescue mission, General James Vaught almost had free reign


52 posted on 04/25/2010 8:42:49 PM PDT by RaceBannon (RON PAUL: THE PARTY OF TRUTHERS, TRAITORS AND UFO CHASERS!!!)
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To: RaceBannon

Nonsense!


53 posted on 04/25/2010 8:49:06 PM PDT by Kansas58
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To: Catsrus

The only love that Kennedy had for the military was that he could say that he was one time in the service. He was in the Army and discharged as a PFC.


54 posted on 04/25/2010 9:02:44 PM PDT by Mr. Jazzy ("I AM JIM THOMPSON and moderates make me PUKE!!!")
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To: Leisler; buccaneer81

I thought that the Son Tay raid went well for the raid itself, it was just that the prisons were empty which was a failure of the non military part of the operation?


55 posted on 04/25/2010 10:59:11 PM PDT by ansel12 (Romney-"I longed in many respects to actually be in Vietnam and be representing our country there")
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To: Catsrus

http://vodpod.com/watch/1342369-1980-reagan-carter-debate-part-i

8 minutes of Gip from the dee-bate!


56 posted on 04/25/2010 11:57:31 PM PDT by dasboot
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To: ansel12

“Other than that, how did you like the play, Mrs. Lincoln?”

That’s kind of like saying the Jedburg teams that got rounded up by informers in France in WWII did good, except for the intel part. Not to mention, the almost all CIA post WWII native teams that were inserted into Eastern Europe, almost all of them were wiped out. Nice, eh?

What’s the point.

( Another, older operation. Bay of Pigs )

Anyways, after twenty years, the military bureaucracy finally responded and made the Special Operations Command, realizing that the failures were leadership, organizational.


57 posted on 04/26/2010 3:31:54 AM PDT by Leisler
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To: Vigilanteman

There must of been five thousand guys, or more, that in support came knowingly, or not, in contact with members.

I can not imagine in today’s world of internet, cell phones how you would keep operational security.


58 posted on 04/26/2010 3:35:50 AM PDT by Leisler
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To: Catsrus
Of course, we can only hope that zero follows in Carter’s footsteps, 4 years and you’re out! Sounds good to me.

It looks like it will probably happen that way, but we are the ones who have to make it happen. With ACORN broke and on the sidelines, it's going to be hard for them to steal it. We can win it fair and square.

If I'm not mistaken, the collision occurred while the KC-130 and the helicopter were on the ground rather tan in mid-air.

The Sea Stallion helicopter was in the air, flying low; and the KC-130 was taxiing.

59 posted on 04/26/2010 4:06:30 AM PDT by Philo1962 (Iraq is terrorist flypaper. They go there to die.)
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To: patriotgal1787

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMolPFEP_jk

check out this oldie, it’s a goodie!


60 posted on 04/26/2010 4:09:11 AM PDT by BOBWADE
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