DOH indirectly confirms: Factcheck COLB date filed and certificate number impossible

Butterdezillion | Feb 23, 2010 | Butterdezillion

[parsifal]

Sorry it took so long to get back to you. Fighting off birthers left and right. Using a laptop, so if I get carpal tunnel syndrome, I AM SUING EVERY BIRTHER ON THIS SITE IN A CLASS ACTION LAW SUIT!!!!

Here’s the problem with your stuff. And yes I went there, and I have actually been there a few times before during my research. If you took everything you had and went to see a lawyer to see about suing Obama for lying abut his birth, which actually raises some interesting questions that haven’t been addressed by birthers, but I digress.

Here’s what a lawyer would tell you. He would say, “Ms. Zillion, I would be glad to take your money, but I need some evidence before I feel comfortable suing the President. “

You would say, “HAVE YOU BEEN TALKING TO PARSY???”

OK, I’m joking.

Here’s what you would say, “EVIDENCE! I brought you all this stuff. What the heck do you think it is??? Did you get your law license where Orly Taitz got hers???”

He would say, “But none of what you brought me has anything to do with Obama, unless you can show he was involved in a conspiracy with the HDOH to knowing cover up something.”

You would say, “But, but, but, but.....”

He would say, “Does Obama work at the HDOH? No. Then what in the world does he have to do with the COLB number being out of whack? (which I do not agree) Did Obama prepare and send out the COLB?

“Well, no...”

“Did he refuse to give you a copy as an employee of the HDOH?”

“No, that was some lady, Whakaheeny or something”

And he would do that with everything you have on your website. And to each question, you would have to answer, “Well, no it wasn’t Obama who did whatever. “

That’s the same problem you and every other birther have on the “He wasn’t born in Hawaii” side of the movement.

And just for giggles, suppose for a moment that his grandparents really did kinda backdoor him into an Hawaiin birth certificate and he really was born in a little manger inside a mud hut in Kenya. Assume that.

What if nobody ever told him?

parsy

[EnderWiggins]

"Apuzzo refutes your contention that a self-authenticating documents is unassailable. Self-authentication is a presumption that can be rebutted, if I understand the FRE correctly."

Of course it can be rebutted... if you actually had evidence to rebut it. But you don't.

Until you find some, Obama has met his burden of proof. The ball is in your court.

"Your lawyerly assertion that Apuzzo’s argument “has yet to score him a single victory" is correct, but only because there has never been a ruling on his argument."

If he had real evidence to rebut the COLB then that wouldn't be true. He would have completely side stepped the hurdle of standing by filing a criminal complaint rather than a civil one. This is not some Catch 22 as you guys all seem to think. It is a simple instance of Apuzzo not having the evidence he needs to make a real case.

"It appears only the quo warranto suggested by Judge Carter in the correct venue would give the opportunity for Apuzzo or Donofrio to challenge the self-authentication of any HI COLB placed into evidence."

Too bad Orly's already poisoning that well for you even as we speak. But as I pointed out, the quo warranto is not the right way to do this.

A criminal complaint against the Hawaii DOH for fraud is your ticket. But first you actually need evidence.

[parsifal]

Nice try! You are getting better! BUT:

WHERE’S YOUR REBUTTAL EVIDENCE? What are you going to present to overcome the presumption.

parsy, who can’t wait to see it!

[parsifal]

Let’s take baby steps. How many types of citizens did the WKA Court say that there was and what are those types:

parsy

[Danae]

Citizen, yes. Natural born citizen, no. The court did not say Wong was an NBC. They made the differentiation between citizen and Natural born citizen and then declined to define Natural born Citizen stating it was not necessary in his case. Therefore, Wong was a citizen, but not a NBC.

[EnderWiggins]

" Obama must have had employed ghosts lawyers who defended him against the lawsuits. "

Actually, not even ghost lawyers are needed to defend yourself from a lawsuit against somebody else. Most of the suits have not even been against Obama... they were mostly against State Secretaries of State. So... most didn't cost him a penny.

"You think the Obama COLB is evidence?"

Of course it's evidence. And until you come up with something to contradict it, it is all the evidence he needs.

[EnderWiggins]

So wheres your “rebuttal evidence?”

[parsifal]

So, what proof do you have of any of this. Start off with the alleged “fraudulent certificate number”.

Do it in this form:

1. On mm/dd/yy a COLB purportedly issued by the HDOH was present to a third party fact verifier by the POTUS. Said document hereinafter to be referred to simply as “COLB”

2. The number on the COLB was listed as_______.

3. Based on the following, this number is not a correct number for said COLB, to wit:

a.
b.

etc. etc. You are not wasting your time. If you have a valid Complaint, you can cut and paste this into a law suit.One issue at a time please for clarity. Perhaps you Birthers can private mail back and forth to work on this? Or in open.

parsy, who says if you have details, this is how you present them

[STARWISE]

There’s another circular argument, signifying nothing.

Who was his certifiably official father,
and what was his father’s citizenship when
he was allegedly born?

Are you going to agree with another lunatic
who actually believes our Constitution would
allow Fidel Castro’s or Hugo Chavez’s child
of an American woman to become president ??

Do you share ANY of our Founders’ concerns
about dual national allegiance for a US CIC
at all?

[BP2]

> So wheres your “rebuttal evidence?”

There’s no need for it. Per the very rules set forth by HRS 318.

The COLB has not been presented in court. Only a PHOTO of it has been.

[parsifal]

No. the law does confer the citizenship on a foreign sovereign, his kids, or his consuls and ministers. Neither is citizenship bestowed upon the kids of invaders.

That would knock out Castro and Chavez.

Have you read Wong Kim Ark?

parsy

[edge919]

And I directly responded by pointing out that you don't need any expertise whatsoever to authenticate a hard copy of a state certified and sealed document. Even you are perfectly qualified to do so under the law.

Thanks. I say it's not authentic as we've seen no solid proof that it contains the seal and the signature. Since you agreed I'm qualified, that means you can't disagree with my conclusions. Good call.

No... not even close. A self authenticating document can be challenged if you actually have evidence that it is a forgery.

Which is what this thread is about.

And if you had such evidence, you wouldn't be filing civil complaints. You would file a criminal complaint against the Hawaii DOH for complicity in fraud where there is no hurdle of standing to overcome.

You're finally right about something. I think there's enough evidence now to make this a criminal matter. We're talking about an impeachable offense. As for the DOH, the evidence of complicity is a little tenuous yet, but for cantfactcheck.org, a very strong case indeed.

The real explanation why it has never been introduced in a court of law is that you do not have the evidence to prevail in a criminal court, and you do not have the standing to prevail in a civil one. Go get some real evidence and then see how quickly things change.

You don't get it or don't want to admit it. We do have evidence now. Spokesbabe Okubo has confirmed that Obama's cert number can't be legit.

[edge919]

Parsy, your form is a mess and makes no sense. I understand you can’t refute the evidence and posting a silly, pretend form is kind of desperate.

[edge919]

Which court case present any photos of the alleged COLB?? I haven’t seen this anywhere.

[edge919]

Citizen, yes. Natural born citizen, no. The court did not say Wong was an NBC. They made the differentiation between citizen and Natural born citizen and then declined to define Natural born Citizen stating it was not necessary in his case. Therefore, Wong was a citizen, but not a NBC.

And again, under the parameters of the decision that made Wong a citizen, Obama II would not be. Ouch!

[edge919]

He would say, “But none of what you brought me has anything to do with Obama, unless you can show he was involved in a conspiracy with the HDOH to knowing cover up something.”

You would say, “But, but, but, but.....”<

He would say, “Does Obama work at the HDOH? No. Then what in the world does he have to do with the COLB number being out of whack? (which I do not agree) Did Obama prepare and send out the COLB?

Your hypothetical fails at this point. The HI DOH has NEVER claimed to have issued the alleged COLB. As a forgery, it was produced by Obama, well, no, one of his sycophants (Obama doesn't have the talent or intellect to pull this off by himself, but that's beside the point) who did it for him. A likely person was someone like Polarik or Steve Ellis (Koyaan) who have worked a little too hard at claiming to debunk forgery and/or claims of forgery.

There's no question that it was sent out by Obama through Tommy Vietor. It had no certificate number on it. Magically a certificate number only appeared after the HI DOH insisted a few weeks later that they couldn't release any of Obama's birth records (therefore creating cover for him, perhaps inadvertently). Either they found the certificate number of a deceased person or picked a number at random, feeling comfortable that DOH policies would prevent them from exposing their fraud. Unfortunately for Obama, he didn't know the Nordyke certificates would be made public and that citizen sleuths like Terri K and butterdezillion would be smart enough and tenacious enough to expose the deception.

[STARWISE]

Well, that’s at least a relief.

I now have more faith in the AR educational system.

[EnderWiggins]

"There’s no need for it."

Who asked if it was needed? Asked if you had any. Apparently, you not only don't have any, you don't even think it's needed.

Great. We can all go home now.

[MHGinTN]

I find myself wondering which of the three different purported authentic images posted at various times on the Internet Barry's lawyers would expect a judge/court to accept?

The very first image posted on the net for the world to adore was different from the second image they posted. And the third image in the several posted at the same time from factcheck's progressive shills match to some degree the second image but not the first at all. Yet we see these oabamnoid fecal spittlist claiming imagery on the Internet is absolute proof of this lying sonofabitch's authenticity.

After a few days of these shills falling on their swords for their freak-in-chief, it becomes obvious that they are more than willing to swallow axelgreasy's Koolaid and believe whatever they're told to believe, regardless of proof that they are swallowing forgeries. When you post comparative evidence that the posted CoLB is not authentic, they just dismiss it with another of their talking points or just lie openly.

Perhaps the obamaoind fecal flaoters have decided that they can make these discussions so insipid, so disgustingly full of kneepad worship of obama's lies that FR will cease to post threads discussing the issues. Already Jim has protected these liars to the point that most regulars don't even read the threads, and a few like myself have ceased to support a website which protects such liars and fools as the Buckeye texan ping list swarms to any Taitz or birth cert thread. catch the axelgreasy operatives in a blatant lie, ping the moderator, and it is ignored ... when the right mod is working.

[little jeremiah]

BTTT for interesting facts and ?