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To: lentulusgracchus
BTW I too was born in Indiana and I live in Virginia. A number of my ancestors were born and raised in South Carolina just prior to the Revolution. Through the years they were driven out of their home country (as attested by the Treaty of Paris) because they objected to slavery.

They ended up in Indiana ~ refugees from slavers.

I have no doubt they were proud as punch their children and grandchildren were able to return and blow the slavers to kingdom come, burn their houses, torch their fields, free their slaves......

You people who think you have all the answers about "why the war happened" forget that it was different for different people.

You can go fight your war ~ this one is over and the right people lost it fair and square.

181 posted on 02/18/2010 6:16:02 PM PST by muawiyah
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To: muawiyah
You people who think you have all the answers about "why the war happened" forget that it was different for different people.

THAT, dumbass, is EXACTLY the argument made by the people you're trying to piss on. Do you hear us now????? I pray you and yourn do, but I doubt you do.

185 posted on 02/18/2010 6:22:10 PM PST by thatdewd (2010 is coming soon...and THEY know it! THEY are afraid.)
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To: muawiyah
You can go fight your war ~ this one is over and the right people lost it fair and square.

The only winners were Lincoln and his political ring and the Eastern businessmen they fronted for. And it was the latter who cashed the winning ticket and grew fat and rich off the Gilded Age.

Everyone else lost, Iowa farmboy veterans no less than dead Georgians.

198 posted on 02/18/2010 6:44:10 PM PST by lentulusgracchus
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To: muawiyah; cowboyway
“I have no doubt they were proud as punch their children and grandchildren were able to return and blow the slavers to kingdom come, burn their houses, torch their fields, free their slaves......”

Your ancestors would rather coerce poor Irish immigrants ( Fresh of the Boat ) To fight - Than fight themselves! Cowards. They would rather burn a man's home - Than fight the man who owns it. Not all Unionist - believed as your Kin.
“I take a just pride as an American citizen, a descendant on both sides of my parentage of English stock, who came to this country about 1640, that the Southern army, composed almost entirely of Americans, were able, under the ablest American chieftains, to defeat so often the overwhelming hosts of the North, which were composed largely of foreigners to our soil; in fact, the majority were mercenaries whom large bounties induced to enlist, while the stay-at-home patriots, whose money bought them, body and boots, ‘to go off and get killed, instead of their own precious selves, said let the war go on.’”

“Their artillery horses are poor, starved frames of beasts, tied to their carriages and caissons with odds and ends of rope and strips of rawhide; their supply and ammunition trains look like a congregation of all the crippled California emigrant trains that ever escaped off the desert out of the clutches of the rampaging Comanche Indians; the men are ill-dressed, ill-equipped and ill-provided—a set of ragamuffins that a man would be ashamed to be seen among even when he is a prisoner and can't help it; and yet they have beaten us fairly, beaten us all to pieces, beaten us so easily that we are objects of contempt even to their commonest private soldiers, with no shirts to hang out the holes of their pantaloons, and cartridge boxes tied around their waists with strands of rope.”

Marquis of Lothian
“Let us however suppose the Southern Secession to have been altogether illegal and uncalled for, or rather let us turn away our eyes from the question altogether, and suppose that the causes of the struggle are veiled in obscurity. Can we find anything in the circumstances of the war itself which may induce us to take one side rather than the other? Those circumstances have been very remarkable. This contest has been signalized by the exhibition of some of the best and some of the worst qualities that war has ever brought out. It has produced a recklessness of human life; a contempt of principles, a disregard of engagements; a wasteful expenditure almost unprecedented; a widely extended corruption among the classes who have any connection with the government or the war; an enormous debt, so enormous as to point to almost certain repudiation; the headlong adoption of the most lawless measures; the public faith scandalously violated both towards friends and enemies; the liberty of the citizen at the mercy of arbitrary power; the liberty of the press abolished: the suspension of the Habeas Corpus Act; illegal imprisonments; midnight arrests; punishments inflicted without trial; the courts of law controlled by satellites of government; elections carried on under military supervision; a ruffianism both of word and action eating deep into the country; contractors and stock jobbers suddenly amassing enormous fortunes out of the public misery, and ostentatiously parading their ill-gotten wealth in the most vulgar display of luxury; the most brutal inhumanity in the conduct of the war itself; outrages upon the defenceless, upon women, children and prisoners; plunder, rapine, devastation, murder,—all the old horrors of barbarous warfare, which Europe is beginning to be ashamed of, and new refinements of cruelty thereto added, by way of illustrating the advance of knowledge. It has also produced qualities and phenomena the opposite of these. Ardour and devotedness of patriotism which might, alone be enough to make us proud of the century to which we belong; a unanimity such as has probably never been witnessed before; a wisdom in legislation; a stainless good faith under extremely difficult circumstances; a clear appreciation of danger, coupled with a determination to face it to the uttermost; a resolute abnegation of power in favor of leaders in whom those who selected them could trust; with an equally resolute determination to reserve the liberty of criticism, and not to allow those trusted leaders to go one inch beyond their legal powers: a heroism in the field and behind the defences of besieged cities, which can match anything that history has to show; a wonderful helpfulness in supplying needs and creating fresh resources; a chivalrous and romantic daring, which recalls the middle ages: a most scrupulous regard for the rights of hostile property; a tender consideration for the vanquished and the weak; a determination not to be provoked into retaliation by the most brutal injuries, which makes one wonder, recollecting what those injuries have been, whether in their place, one would have done as they have done. * * * And the remarkable circumstance is * * * that all the good qualities have been on the one side, and all the bad ones on the other.”

210 posted on 02/19/2010 5:31:54 AM PST by Idabilly
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