Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article

To: DoctorBulldog

Doc,

It’s always a bit tiresome to have to slay again the already slain, but you and I have never really talked before so bear with me.

1. The original French of de Vattel was “Les naturels ou indigenes...”

2. The first six English translations of de Vattel translated that phrase to read, “The natives or indigenes...” This is very important, so I hope you are paying attention. They translated “naturels” to “natives,” not to “natural born citizens.”

3. In the 1797 London edition we find the phrase “natural born citizens” for the first time. But the new translation is this, “The natives or natural born citizens...” Again, this is very important, so I hope you are paying attention. “Naturels” is still translated as “natives.” It is the word “indigenes” that is now translated for the first time as “natural born citizens.”

In every single English language edition of de Vattel to this very day, “naturels” has never been “translated as “natural born citizens.” And I ask you, if 250 years of professional translators have never once thought to translate “naturels” as “natural born citizens,” why would you imagine for a second that Ben Franklin would have?

So again...the point remains. It is impossible without time travel for de Vattel to have had any influence over the article II definition of “natural born citizen.”


185 posted on 02/12/2010 4:35:21 PM PST by EnderWiggins
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 180 | View Replies ]


To: EnderWiggins
“The natives or natural born citizens...” Again, this is very important, so I hope you are paying attention. “Naturels” is still translated as “natives.

Ya know, you are a cocky, condecending smart ass.

Accepting your premise, you left out the part of being born to TWO citizen parents.

What a dweeb.

187 posted on 02/12/2010 4:39:45 PM PST by Las Vegas Ron ("Because without America, there is no free world" - Canada Free Press - MSM where are you?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 185 | View Replies ]

To: EnderWiggins

As you can see for yourself, via the image I have previously provided, the translations are wrong. Even so, you are skipping over the fact that Our Founding Fathers read the French of Vattel, not the translation.

I read and speak French. “Naturels” most definitely means, “Natural.”

Here’s a game for you: Go to Google’s French to English translator and enter in the word, “naturels.”

http://translate.google.com/#fr|en|naturels

Now, did it give you “natives” as a translation, or did it give you “natural?”

Now, go to Google’s English to French translator and enter in the english word, “natives.” Did it translate “natives” into “naturels” or, did it translate it into “indigènes?”

http://translate.google.com/#en|fr|natives

Like I said, Our Founding Fathers read and spoke French quite fluently. They were given copies of Vattel that were written in French. They would have quite naturally translated and interpreted “naturels” to be “naturals,” not “natives.”

Likewise, they would have translated and interpreted “indigènes” to mean “natives,” and not “naturals.”

That the English translations of Vattel have incorrectly translated “naturels” is of little consequence when you consider that Our Founding Fathers were reading the French version.

Cheers


203 posted on 02/12/2010 5:09:37 PM PST by DoctorBulldog
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 185 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Bloggers & Personal
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson