President Obama under the Lens of the Citizenship Question

The Conservative Underground, Vol. 2, No. 30 | November 24, 2009 | Jean F. Drew

[Alamo-Girl]

LOLOL! The IRS is as persistent and powerful as an earthy authority can be - if the anchor baby starts accruing income under his social security number, they'll get their share of it.

[Alamo-Girl]

I very strongly agree with you. International law in this case does not favor Obama.

[betty boop]

At the moment, I'm wondering if and how Obama's dual citizenship at birth - as a result of his father's domicile - ended.

I'm not sure it ever did, dearest sister in Christ. And it really wouldn't matter whether it did or not, as far as the "natural-born" criterion is involved. This is the problem: His father was not an American citizen. Neither was his stepfather.

His mother Stanley Ann was. But whether she had the ability to transfer American citizenship to her son at the time of his birth (because she was not of legal age to do so under the relevant naturalization statutes of the time) is the crux of the issue.

But even if Obama's claim to citizenship stems from his mother, still he would not be a "natural-born citizen of the United States" because of the citizenship status of his father(s).

At least, this would be how I'd define the problem before us.

Maybe the Treasury of the United Kingdom should take a look at back taxes owed by our sitting POTUS? Or maybe the Indonesian fiscal authorities?

[TXnMA]

I've been working (on and off) on a spreadsheet matrix that depicts all of the likely aspects of US citizenship -- with specific individuals as illustrations of each case I could think of. (I intend to publish it here on FR -- as a HTML Table -- for comment and editorial input when I'm done.)

When you lay it out as an X-Y matrix, is it obvious that there is an amazingly large set of possible combinations...

syc1959, your jurisdiction element certainly needs to be added as another defining condition (column). (ACK! More possible combinations...!)

;-}

BTW, is anyone aware of an American [born] citizen who is the offspring of a foreign [male] diplomat and a U.S. "natural born" wife? (That is the closest analogy of Øbama's situation [assuming he can prove Hawaiian {soil} birth] I have been able to come up with -- so far...)

[TXnMA]

Of course, there is always the possibility that Øbama might expose himself to "embarrassment", and spring a surprise (like FMD or MX) on us as his father (making him "Natural Born" -- even by our definition).

Then, I guess it would be up to us to blazon the fraudulent nature of his books -- and the sealing of his other life documents -- to the U.S. voting public...

[betty boop]

BTW, is anyone aware of an American [born] citizen who is the offspring of a foreign [male] diplomat and a U.S. "natural born" wife?

Simple answer: NO. No example immediately comes to mind. (That doesn't necessarily mean there are NO examples, just that I can't think of one.)

But Barack Hussein Obama SENIOR does not even come close to this description. He was a "foreign-exchange student," not a diplomat.

I hope you will share your "X–Y Matrix" with us when you get it "done," dear brother in Christ! Thank you ever so very much for writing!

[betty boop]

...there is always the possibility that Øbama might expose himself to "embarrassment", and spring a surprise (like FMD or MX) on us....

Forgive me for being slow on the uptake here, but: what are the "FMD" and "MX" surprises?

I'm not catching the acronyms....

[betty boop]

It would be good not to represent that Ryder says more than it says because the de facto officer doctrine does not apply to decisions as yet unmade which is the point of Ryder after all where Coastguardsman Ryder brought up the point before the decision was made as does Colonel Hollister in his case.

What is perplexing to me is that Judge Robertson does not feel the federal courts have any role in answering the question, "Were I, as a retired Air Force Colonel [Col. Hollister] and thus subject to perpetual presidential recall to duty, to receive orders from this president so to do, would I have to obey such an order, given the uncertainty surrounding the authority and eligibility of this president to issue such orders to me in the first place? Where so many questions remain on the legitimacy issue, what would be my constitutional duty in this regard, which I swore to in taking my own Constitutional Oath?"

Evidently Judge Robertson found this question "unreasonable," since the "citizenship test" of the president had been amply ventilated on the Internet over the past year or so.

O Goodie. The Internet is now the American standard of law and our court of justice. Okey-dokey. But then, Judge Robertson: Why do we need YOU? Maybe we ought to encourage all federal judges to retire, and leave American constitutional law and justice to determinations on/by the Internet?

Whatta jerk.

I would most desperately like to know what is in the Berg "sealed case"....

Thank you ever so much, AmericanVictory, for your provocative and perceptive insights!

[TXnMA]

Frank Marshall Davis — and — Malcolm X...

[AmericanVictory]

Thank you, for your interest. What is interesting is that in a case where a judge relied upon "blogging and twittering" on the Internet as the ultimate arbiter of American consittutional justice, when Hemenway moved for judiical notice of statutes in Hawaii, the Kenyan birth certificate filed before Judge Carter and the differing official certifications to the states by Pelosi, the lawyers for Soetoero a/k/a Obama first chose to ignore the effort and then, upoon a show of cause issued by the Clerk, opposed with some serious misrepresentations. The case is well worth watching and one wonders what other reservists and even guard members are thinking as they learn that it is going on? It would be good if Hemenway and Donofrio couid communicate.

The fact remains that the question of why Colonel Hollister should not be able to have the election of Soetoro a/k/a Obama declared only to have made him a president de facto and not de jure if Coastguardsman Ryder was able to have the appointment of the Coast Guard appeals panel members so declared? Is the One too big to be held to have acted above the law and thus fail as the constitutional fraud that he appears to be?

[betty boop]

The fact remains that the question of why Colonel Hollister should not be able to have the election of Soetoro a/k/a Obama declared only to have made him a president de facto and not de jure if Coastguardsman Ryder was able to have the appointment of the Coast Guard appeals panel members so declared? Is the One too big to be held to have acted above the law and thus fail as the constitutional fraud that he appears to be?

Dear AmericanVictory, methinks I have an uncanny source in you RE: our current particulars....

Further details would be MOST welcome!

More and more people are paying attention to such questions now. Please keep your eyes peeled, and fill us in on the emerging details? And let me know if I can help in any way?

[El Gato]

Especially in the case where we clearly have an inordinately “internationally-minded” POTUS in office right now, I for one would like to know exactly what kind of citizen he is.

He might be native born, and that is what he represents himself to be, kinda sorta. But what he is definitely not, unless he's lying about who his father was, is a Natural Born citizen, since his father was not a citizen, ever.

[El Gato]

EXCERPT 2: de Vattel’s Law of Nations circa 1758 Book 1, Chapter XIX, § 212: The natives, or NATURAL-BORN CITIZENS, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens…The country of the fathers is therefore that of the children; and these become true citizens merely by their tacit consent.

Another section of LoN states:

§ 217. Children born in the armies of the state.

For the same reasons also, children born out of the country, in the armies of the state, or in the house of its minister at a foreign court, are reputed born in the country; for a citizen who is absent with his family, on the service of the state, but still dependent on it, and subject to its jurisdiction, cannot be considered as having quitted its territory.

Thus it does not matter where McCain was born, Panama on the Coco Solo naval station in the zone, he is a natural born citizen, since his father (and grandfather) were in the sevice of the state, and subject to its jurisdiction, as Naval Officers.

Obama does not qualify as Natural Born.

[El Gato]

Listed on this birth record is the "birth place" of the father in block 11. IF the birth place shows any country other than the United States then Barack Hussein Obama is NOT a natural born citizen

Not in general true. The father could have been naturalized prior to the birth of the child. In that case the child would be a natural born citizen. It would require a copy of the naturalization papers of the parent(s) to prove natural born status

Of course BHO Sr. was never naturalized, and was never even a permanent legal resident of the US, he was merely a visitor here on a student visa.

[El Gato]

I'd read before that Stanley Ann Dunham, as a minor at the time of Obama's birth who couldn't satisfy the residency requirement under then-existing law, was ineligible to transfer American citizenship to her child. From his mother's side, Obama is, in effect, a "stateless person."

Only if he was born outside the US, and to a mother *legally* married to a foreign national. If not legally married, then it's one year, IIRC. But if he was born in the US, he is a citizen, per the 14th amendment to the Constitution. But still not a Natural born citizen.

The only way he might be natural born is if the long form BC shows no father, or a US citizen father.

[El Gato]

That Obama had a British father was without doubt a year ago. Why didn’t conservatives raise the issue then?

They did. No court would grant "standing" to examine the issue. No court has to this day, AFAIK.

[missnry]

The father could have been naturalized prior to the birth of the child. In that case the child would be a natural born citizen.

Agree.

[betty boop]

He might be native born, and that is what he represents himself to be, kinda sorta. But what he is definitely not, unless he's lying about who his father was, is a Natural Born citizen, since his father was not a citizen, ever.

Totally agreed El Gato! My conclusion exactly.

Thank you ever so much for writing!

[betty boop]

Oh my, that WOULD be a surprise!!! LOLOL! Rollicking good fun — except in either case, the father would then have been (apparently) an American citizen.... which in all likelihood would then mean that BHO is "natural-born." :^)

AFAIK, Frank Marshall Davis and Malcolm X were both American citizens.

Thanks TXnMA!

[betty boop]

Is the One too big to be held to have acted above the law and thus fail as the constitutional fraud that he appears to be?

That is indeed the question now before the American people.

It's interesting that at first Obama's legal team showed little interest, and then "opposed with some serious misrepresentations." Do you know what those "misrepresentations" were?

I would just love to know what is in Berg's "sealed" case....

Indeed, AmericanVictory, "The case is well worth watching." Yet the wheels of justice grind sooooooo sloooooooowly.... Sigh.

Thank you so very much for your outstanding essay/post!