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To: John Leland 1789
I was simply replying to your statement that you were sure there were more unbelievers than Thomas Paine, and gave Adams and Jefferson as examples (Benjamin Franklin was also a Deist, for that matter). I agree that Adams didn't disrespect Christians, although Jefferson is a bit more complex in this respect. Quoting:

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus.

And:

In our Richmond there is much fanaticism, but chiefly among the women. They have their night meetings and prayer parties, where, attended by their priests, and sometimes by a hen-pecked husband, they pour forth the effusions of their love to Jesus, in terms as amatory and carnal, as their modesty would permit them to use a mere earthly lover.

He's certainly showing disdain towards some Christians in regards to their Christianity, but I don't recall him ever doing so towards Christians in general.

Thomas Paine is another matter, or course...

78 posted on 12/05/2009 9:58:06 AM PST by GL of Sector 2814 (One man's theology is another man's belly laugh --- Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: GL of Sector 2814

“In our Richmond there is much fanaticism, but chiefly among the women. They have their night meetings and prayer parties, where, attended by their priests, and sometimes by a hen-pecked husband, they pour forth the effusions of their love to Jesus, in terms as amatory and carnal, as their modesty would permit them to use a mere earthly lover.”


This seems to be a criticism of professing Christians who were doing something untoward. It does not seem to be a denunciation of Christianity in general.

I would have to see more, and know the source.

Are some bringing up the Deist thing among some of our founders to insist that they were anti-Christian, or hostile to Christianity?

Benjamin Franklin, on the morning of June 20th, 1787 gave an address to the Constitutional Convention in which he said,

“I have lived, sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth-—that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured, sir, in the sacred writings, that ‘Except the Lord build the house they labor in vain that build it.’ I firmly believe this; and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel. We shall be dived by our little, partial, local interests; our projects will be confounded, and we ourselves become a reproach and by-word down to future ages. And, what is worse, mankind may hereafter, from this unfortunate circumstance, despair of establishing governments by human wisdom, and leave it to chance, war, and conquest.

“I therefore beg leave to move that henceforth prayers imploring the assistance of Heaven, and its blessingon on our deliberations, be held in this assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service.”

THE CHRISTIAN LIFE AND CHARACTER . . . , Banjamin Morris, 1864, p. 299.

Deists do not believe that God intervenes in the affairs of men.

Thomas Jefferson’s first message as president includes these words:

“I shall need the favor of that Being, in whose hands we are, who led our fathers, as Israel of old, from their native land, and planted them in a Country flowing with all the necessities and Comforts of life; who has covered our infancy with His providence, and our riper years with His wisdom and power; and to whose goodness I ask you to join with me in supplications that He will so enlightn the minds of your servants, guide their counsels, and prosper their measures, and whatsoever they do shall result in your good and shall secure to you the friendship and approbation of all nations.

“Can the liberties of a nation be thought secure, when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are th gifts of God?-—that they are not to be violated except with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.”


230 posted on 12/05/2009 4:58:28 PM PST by John Leland 1789 (But then, I'm accused of just being a troll, so . . . .)
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