Replies

"Nooo, I regret to say that I never owned a 427 cammer, I DID own a 427 Side Oiler that resided between the fenders of my '63 Galaxie..."

The side oiler's dry sump like my Zcar, right?
Same mill Carroll put in his ACs, too.
I wonder if the SO'ers weren't, if nothing else, more reliable than the cammer cars mk?
Not unlike the 440 vs. the 426 Hemi: Want to race get a Hemi, want to cruise get the 440.

"...the ironic thing is that I could have bought a cammer from a mechanic in Kensington Maryland that needed cash in a hurry and was willing to let it go for a mere $1000 and of course I was about 950 bucks short dammit..."

HA!!
I can remember when a $1,000 was all the money in the world, mk. Whatta codger I am.

"But you never ratted him out did ya?"

Nope, didn't know it at the time but I was destined to be a real diplomat. Was an "amicable", albeit unspoken, agreement between ol' Myron & I. We saw nuthin' said it all. LOL!!

>Say mk, the *lore* back in the day was cammer 427 was prone to snapping one or the other cams. To your knowledge was there ever any truth to that?
"To the best of my knowledge, that was just a bad rumor with no basis to it HOWEVER, because the 427 Cammer engine was based on the standard 427 block design, it required a dummy shaft and cam gear to ride in the standard position where a camshaft would ordinarily reside in the block, I heard (don't know for sure) that those dummy shafts had some issues once you got up over 6000 rpm."

I'd bet that explanation's at the root of that aged-old rumor. In fact, I'd give good odds on it. LOL

"...(the 427 SOHC was conservatively rated at 616 horsepower at 7000 rpm with the dual 4-bbl Holley configuration). The Cammer was originally intended to challenge Chrysler's Hemi in NASCAR (it was said that Chrysler intended to introduce the Hemi into NASCAR competition, and the Cammer (being a true Hemi design as well) was the equivalent of the Soviet 'Doomsday Machine', i.e., "if you race your Hemi, we'll unleash this even more awesome and destructive SOHC Hemi"..."

Lemme guess, NAZZZZZZCAR wouldn't allow it.
Geshhhhh.
So tell me, Ford's 429 was also a hemispherical head design, did compete in NASCAR and really gave MOPAR's --Plymouth or Dodge-- Hemis all they could handle. Of course by then GM had withdrawn from participation, IIRC.

>Only Boneass' car had a 390, not the cammer and really not enough HP to move all that Detroit iron. Certainly not in the same league as the uber lightweight Dart 340, any way.
"That's odd, the 390 traditionally had plenty of oats to move those big Fords around, I've had a few of them and except for the bore diameter, they're very similar to the 427. (427 = 4.23 bore x 3.78 stroke, 390 = 4.05 bore x 3.78 stroke, the difference, yea the BIG difference was in the heads and breathing)"

I'd have thought so, bore-wise.
But being a Ford guy whose actually built cars, I'd bet your take's spot on. As I said (didn't I?) Boneass bought the car already built from this Osmond character. Not to bash the kid, but he was different so who can say WTH he did to the motor besides the obligatory cam, lifter/spring package, over-sized carb & the obligatory Cherry Bombs.

Here's what I can remember...the thing could barely wind to 5K! Struggled, seemed --to ME-- like something was holding the whole shittin' caboodle back. Does *that* description sound familiar? Only thing I could say was I experienced something similar when the heat riser in my '80 Corvette was stuck, impeding exhaust evacuation.
Felt much just like that; though, time's distorted everything else so take it FWIW.

Now the other neighbor kid adjacent to our house, his folks bought a then new '69 Torino GT 390 with a 3 Hurst (IIRC) speed manual. "Gordy's" claim to fame was *speed shifting*, primarily because most of us had autos and wouldn't have gone far if it meant we had to work a clutch. LOL

But even his stock 390 4bbl, which I'll guess was the 325HP version, wasn't all that swift. But it did have a hood scoop, like the Mach 1s, *looked* awfully cool to teenagers like us. LOL

Obvious;y the people I ran with simply didn't know WTH they were doing, that is all 2 of 'em and one's car was his folk's. LOL

Like the 383 *or* 396 FTM, I'd always had a healthy respect if only because they had the cubic inches over my paltry small block 340, y'know?
That's why I was more than just surprised to blow the doors off these cars, badly. Came around to thinking the success was mainly due to the HP to Wt ratio so skewed in my favor.

>One night Boneass...was probably stewd, he loses control of his beloved Galaxy 500 390...
"I will lower my FoMoCo flag to half-mast in belated memory."

HA!!
Kidding aside and in spite of Boneass not being the sharpest knife in the drawer? He must've really hurt inside, bad. Trust me, that's one subject I never razzed 'em over even tho' I could, if need be, KHA.
Was sad then & still sad in memory. Y'know?

>...that broken car sat across the street for a longest time, front end slightly elevated.
"A true indignity to all Ford lovers."

Yea and then consider this, mk.
That 390 was all dressed up. Fancy valve covers, carb yadayadayada. Mags, tranny & shifter etc not to mention the trim, most body panels all straight. To the best of my memory he sold it for scrap, or hos old man did after getting sick of seeing it sitting. Ouch.

Great family photo, mk.
Thanks a million for sharing.
Your Pa, a BIG man indeed.
And you partner, a li'l shaver!!
Awfully cute kid, mk.

Explains your good bride buying you that model car, obviously was & remains the best tack for keeping ya around as long as possible. ;^)

"Nooo, I regret to say that I never owned a 427 cammer, I DID own a 427 Side Oiler that resided between the fenders of my '63 Galaxie..."
The side oiler's dry sump like my Zcar, right? Same mill Carroll put in his ACs, too. I wonder if the SO'ers weren't, if nothing else, more reliable than the cammer cars mk? Not unlike the 440 vs. the 426 Hemi: Want to race get a Hemi, want to cruise get the 440.

Actually the side oiler was a standard wet sump design, the term referred to the enhanced block casting which incorporated a long high volume oil gallery running the length of the block which fed the main bearings first, and the camshaft, lifters, rockers, etc., second. (the original design was called a 'top oiler', the oil flowed from the pump to the top of the engine, then made it's way down to the crankcase). Of course all 427s had what was known as 'cross bolted mains', the three center main bearing caps bolted to the block with two vertical bolts going from the bottom of the main caps up into the block casting, with two more bolts, coming through the SIDE of the block casting (just above the pan rail) screwing into the side of the main caps, it was virtually bulletproof, it tied the block casting together into practically one unit and the only limiting factor was the structural integrity of the crank, rods and pistons (and oiling, which is why they moved to the side oiler adaptation).

"...the ironic thing is that I could have bought a cammer from a mechanic in Kensington Maryland that needed cash in a hurry and was willing to let it go for a mere $1000 and of course I was about 950 bucks short dammit..."
HA!! I can remember when a $1,000 was all the money in the world, mk. Whatta codger I am.

Yeah, me too pal.

"But you never ratted him out did ya?"
Nope, didn't know it at the time but I was destined to be a real diplomat. Was an "amicable", albeit unspoken, agreement between ol' Myron & I. We saw nuthin' said it all. LOL!!

Hank Williams Jr & Ray Charles "I didn't see you, you didn't see me, and we didn't see a thing!" LOL

Say mk, the *lore* back in the day was cammer 427 was prone to snapping one or the other cams. To your knowledge was there ever any truth to that?
"To the best of my knowledge, that was just a bad rumor with no basis to it HOWEVER, because the 427 Cammer engine was based on the standard 427 block design, it required a dummy shaft and cam gear to ride in the standard position where a camshaft would ordinarily reside in the block, I heard (don't know for sure) that those dummy shafts had some issues once you got up over 6000 rpm."
I'd bet that explanation's at the root of that aged-old rumor. In fact, I'd give good odds on it. LOL

More than likely.

"...(the 427 SOHC was conservatively rated at 616 horsepower at 7000 rpm with the dual 4-bbl Holley configuration). The Cammer was originally intended to challenge Chrysler's Hemi in NASCAR (it was said that Chrysler intended to introduce the Hemi into NASCAR competition, and the Cammer (being a true Hemi design as well) was the equivalent of the Soviet 'Doomsday Machine', i.e., "if you race your Hemi, we'll unleash this even more awesome and destructive SOHC Hemi"..."
Lemme guess, NAZZZZZZCAR wouldn't allow it.

You got it! LOL

Geshhhhh.
So tell me, Ford's 429 was also a hemispherical head design, did compete in NASCAR and really gave MOPAR's --Plymouth or Dodge-- Hemis all they could handle. Of course by then GM had withdrawn from participation, IIRC.

The Boss 429 Mustang(in full Holman Moody race trim) was arguably the most powerful NASCAR vehicle ever built. Unfortunately Ford pulled out of NASCAR after the '69 season so full development of the 429 potential was never realized. But don't let anyone compare the 'race' version with the tuned-down 'street' version, it's like the difference between a .22 auto and a .44 auto mag, LOL

>Only Boneass' car had a 390, not the cammer and really not enough HP to move all that Detroit iron. Certainly not in the same league as the uber lightweight Dart 340, any way.
"That's odd, the 390 traditionally had plenty of oats to move those big Fords around, I've had a few of them and except for the bore diameter, they're very similar to the 427. (427 = 4.23 bore x 3.78 stroke, 390 = 4.05 bore x 3.78 stroke, the difference, yea the BIG difference was in the heads and breathing)"
I'd have thought so, bore-wise.
But being a Ford guy whose actually built cars, I'd bet your take's spot on. As I said (didn't I?) Boneass bought the car already built from this Osmond character. Not to bash the kid, but he was different so who can say WTH he did to the motor besides the obligatory cam, lifter/spring package, over-sized carb & the obligatory Cherry Bombs.

One of the basic mistakes any kid makes in hopping up an engine (and I learned the hard way) was to put in too much cam, and not enough gear in the axle. Longer duration valve timing bumps the engine's power producing peak to higher rpms (which is what you want in a performance motor) but you end up with a corresponding drop in torque (which is what wins your street light competitions, lol). And unless the cam'd up engine also receives a decent set of headers and dual exhaust, it's going to end up choked. And then there is always the error of putting more carb on the engine than it can take, the Holley 780 was probably the best all around carburetor ever made, but a properly tweaked and jetted Holley 600 would produce more horsepower (and vacuum secondaries were the way to go, not with mechanical linkage and all that 'double-pumper' nonsense.

Here's what I can remember...the thing could barely wind to 5K! Struggled, seemed --to ME-- like something was holding the whole shittin' caboodle back. Does *that* description sound familiar? Only thing I could say was I experienced something similar when the heat riser in my '80 Corvette was stuck, impeding exhaust evacuation. Felt much just like that; though, time's distorted everything else so take it FWIW.

Sounds like too much cam, not enough exhaust or the cam could have been installed a degree or two retarded which will DEFINITELY affect overall power output.

Now the other neighbor kid adjacent to our house, his folks bought a then new '69 Torino GT 390 with a 3 Hurst (IIRC) speed manual. "Gordy's" claim to fame was *speed shifting*, primarily because most of us had autos and wouldn't have gone far if it meant we had to work a clutch. LOL

Well a 4 speed (or even 3 speed) and clutch is great but for consistent bracket racing performance, an automatic with a proper high stall torque converter, manual valve body, etc., is pretty hard to beat and you CAN drive it on the street if you don't mind the harsh shifts.

But even his stock 390 4bbl, which I'll guess was the 325HP version, wasn't all that swift. But it did have a hood scoop, like the Mach 1s, *looked* awfully cool to teenagers like us. LOL

That 390/325 was a good solid motor but it wasn't much different than the run of the mill 390-4bbl that you would find in any number of LTDs, Country Squire & Sedan station wagons, etc. The 390 from the factory (by the end of the 60's) needed some work to deliver any kind of really decent street performance.

Obviously the people I ran with simply didn't know WTH they were doing, that is all 2 of 'em and one's car was his folk's. LOL

Sometime I'll tell you about this friend of mine who tried to turn his Dad's 4 door Oldsmobile into a 'race car', lol

Like the 383 *or* 396 FTM, I'd always had a healthy respect if only because they had the cubic inches over my paltry small block 340, y'know? That's why I was more than just surprised to blow the doors off these cars, badly. Came around to thinking the success was mainly due to the HP to Wt ratio so skewed in my favor.

The old saying "there is no substitute for cubic inches" remains true, however it is more important to have a favorable weight-to-horsepower ratio and you certainly had that in spades, I would gather. :)

One night Boneass...was probably stewd, he loses control of his beloved Galaxy 500 390...
"I will lower my FoMoCo flag to half-mast in belated memory."
HA!!
Kidding aside and in spite of Boneass not being the sharpest knife in the drawer? He must've really hurt inside, bad. Trust me, that's one subject I never razzed 'em over even tho' I could, if need be, KHA. Was sad then & still sad in memory. Y'know?

I do indeed know. One of my Galaxies (I've owned a few) was one strong runnin' SOB, but I didn't know that the previous owner had bored out the 390 a full .125 and had to put a sleeve in one of the cylinders. (The maximum a block should be overbored is .060) Anyway, I was driving one of many girlfriends through the Virginia countryside one afternoon and that sleeve let go not far from Tyson's Corner, and I had to call up a wrecker service to tow it home, that was a sad way to return home although the girlfriend was very sympathetic (but not THAT sympathetic dammit lol).

>...that broken car sat across the street for a longest time, front end slightly elevated.
"A true indignity to all Ford lovers."
Yea and then consider this, mk.
That 390 was all dressed up. Fancy valve covers, carb yadayadayada. Mags, tranny & shifter etc not to mention the trim, most body panels all straight. To the best of my memory he sold it for scrap, or his old man did after getting sick of seeing it sitting. Ouch.

That's almost always the way it is, you never get out of a car what you put into it, I've only had that happen to me ONE time in my life, and that is a hilarious story I'll save for another time.

Great family photo, mk.
Thanks a million for sharing.
Your Pa, a BIG man indeed.
And you partner, a li'l shaver!!
Awfully cute kid, mk.

I'm still trying to figure out where that kid ran off to, I keep thinking about that bumper sticker that says "inside every 50-something man, is a 19 year old kid screaming "WTF HAPPENED?!??!?'"

Explains your good bride buying you that model car, obviously was & remains the best tack for keeping ya around as long as possible. ;^)

Well so far so good, she wanted to get a 2009 Dodge Challenger and I found myself arguing AGAINST it (what was I SAYING?!?), in favor of a low mileage Chrysler 300 (the older style before they went to the new 'box' design), I guess that makes me officially an OFBTW (Old Fart Behind The Wheel), lol

Have a great evening Brother Landru, I may be a bit tied up for a while, trouble shooting a neighbor's computer and proving again that "no good deed goes unpunished", LOL

Later!