Posted on 08/12/2009 12:15:24 AM PDT by fretzer
That is the question.
If the GOP makes huge gains in 2010, will BHO become Bill Clinton post 1994 elections?? I don’t think he will. I think, unlike Clinton, he is very wedded to Marxism.
On a side note, I was discussing BHO with two co workers who voted for him. Of course, they expressed some buyer’s remorse. Then they went into a anti Bush/GOP tirade. So, as an unofficial experiment, I asked them if the GOP ran people who pledged to cut taxes, spending, and just generally reduce the size of government if that would earn their votes, both replied in the affirmative.
Why doesn’t the GOP get it???
I don't know how old you are I was a late teen in the 1970’s. Carter won because of the Ford/Nixon era.
By about 1979, Americans had no question which party was responsible for the nation's woes.
I remember getting in my car in that snowy Nov day to vote for Gov. Reagan.
This is why you see the polls shifting to favor the GOP for now.
The American people know very well which party is in charge.
I hope the GOP can fix the damage it did to itself during the Bush years to take advantage of this.
As of today, I still remain doubtful of the GOP. If there is one party than can screw up a two car funeral, it's the GOP.
Otherwise, I still plan on sitting out 2012 like I did in 2000-2008
What I did not foresee and what I'm not sure anyone could foresee what that the Republicans wouldn't see the error of their ways.
I felt fairly confident last year that the GOP would understand why they lost and would do what they had to do to make it work next time. I thought they were capable of internalizing the lessons, and coming out stronger.
That confidence was apparently misplaced. The GOP has to have ideas, they have to put forth solutions, they have to do more than simply react to whatever the Democrats are doing. So far, nothing cohesive, nothing clear, nothing united.
That is the one part of the puzzle that everyone who is crowing about how badly the Democrats are doing and comparing this to 1994 and the Republican Revolution, or Reagan after Carter seem to be missing: Newt Gingrich and Co. had a cohesive plan. Ronald Reagan had a cohesive plan and knew how to present it.
Reagan, Gingrich, et. al knew what they wanted to do, were clear about their intentions, and voters understood that. They weren't reactive; they weren't simply complaining - they had a clear message of smaller government.
No one today in the GOP clearly delivers that message, much less an organized group similar to 1994.
Until that happens - until the GOP gets its act together and its head out of the sand, I'm not sure it matters how bad Obama & Co. are.
You mean that tool Lamar! Alexander? LOL
I forgot about Graham, he was good. I briefly had hope for McLame when I heard Graham was one of his economic advisers and a potential SecTreas. But then he went and denied we were in a recession and made his “nation of whiners” comment and had to quit the campaign.
Buchanan embarrassed the hell out him in ‘96. Thanks for nothing Pat. Although if Graham had ran such a poor race against Clinton....
I have concerns currently about the efficacy of Palin’s proto-campaign staff.
That is what I found is useful. I like to ask independents, moderates both parties , liberals ,... exactly what they expect from government and the two parties. To ask them why they were mad at Bush, even if I disagree. In 1992 I was in a tizzy that others would vote for Perot and Clinton and giving endless lectures but by 2008 I really couldnt blame anyone for their vote, republicans really left a mess, a bi-partision mess or not, it was their chance to shine and they blew it.
Like I said in a reply yesterday, the dynamics were more for a massive landslide in 1994 than 2010 but this could work in our favor for a couple of reasons, 1) Increase Success in 2012, 2) the Republican party still sucks and is not ready to lead. The idea of another republican president terrifies me after Bush and then McCain.
“It’s as simple as ABC . . . Alexander Beats Clinton.”
That’s what Lamar! and his fans would say to anyone that was listening.
BTW, it’s Phil *Gramm*, not Graham. Neither of the two Senators Graham of the past 10 years could hold a candle to Phil.
Yup.
My wife disagrees but I still maintain that if the GOP came back to full control today they would revert right back to their big government conservatism under GWB.
The GOP needs an enema
“Gramm”
:-O Whoops. I beg the Senators’ pardon.
Yes, unlike now republicans cleaned house in 1993. That may be because they were always in minority and now we have a party that used to be in majority for too long. I knew we were still in trouble when McConnell, and Boehner kept their jobs and were too close to Bush, their fault or not. They both promoted the TARP1. The voters need some more time stewing with democrats and republicans need more time to pull their acts together
Lamar! was a total phony, and I never supported him for the Presidency (or primary for Senator in ‘02) because he did a crap job as Governor and left the state GOP in complete shambles. By the time he left office in 1986, TN almost resembled AR politically. We were left with 3 federal Republicans, 2 of which were old men unviable for statewide office (Quillen & John Duncan, Sr.) and the 3rd was Scumquist (who was only covertly showing his RINO stripes, but he was really an IL Combiner who learned his craft in the corrupt Memphis way). We had only second and third tier candidates left to make kamikaze runs for office against well-entrenched Democrats, and for almost the next decade, it was a dark age for the TN GOP. The time I came of age as one in this state.
Anyway, I was a fairly solid Dole Supporter in ‘96. I still believe had he cut loose and got comfortable with himself as he did AFTER the general election, he very well could’ve won. All he needed was the Perot voters and he’d have eked out a victory. Seeing how well Dole did in TN (which he came quite close to winning), I was able to (rightly) conclude 4 years ahead of time that Gore was not going to be able to carry the state in 2000. He had become so far removed from the political realities of this state that it allowed a majority of voters here to see the guy’s attempts at claiming he was a “moderate” was nothing but lies (just like they saw with his dad 30 years earlier). His repudiation in ‘00 was magnificent (and the thunderstorm raining down on his election night party outdoors here in downtown Nashville was the cherry on top). It was like tasting freedom for the first time after getting the Gore family jackboot off the throat of Tennesseans.
GOP Party leaders don't seem to be dedicated to the cause of Conservatism.
They seem dedicated to the cause of getting themselves reelected and keeping their cushy jobs with massive benefits packages.
Say what you want about them, but Newt Gingrich, et al, seemed to believe in Conservatism. Same with Ronald Reagan - coming out of the liberal 1970's, he had a conservative message that resonated with Americans of all types.
People respond positively when they see honestly and when they see someone who loves freedom. The GOP isn't handing out honesty at the moment. They're handing out the same thing they had before the election: lots of rhetoric, very few ideas, and no solutions.
Reagan and the Republican Revolution members were willing to take risks and make their positions known to any and all. They weren't mealy mouthed or lukewarm.
I'm going to say this in advance of the next presidential election: I will not vote for anyone who isn't conservative. I don't care who the Democrats run. I won't give any more money to the GOP until they run conservatives, either.
And yeah, I'm looking at you, Mitt Romney.
For everyone who said that 2008 was too important to not vote for McCain, that the GOP would learn their lesson after the election... all I can say is: they didn't learn. And you wasted your best argument on a group of morons who have no interest in changing.
Until I see cohesive ideas, leadership and solutions, I'll cast my vote the same way I did in 2008 and keep my support and money:
May I ask, assuming you have the answer, why your wife thinks that? I don't want to pick on your wife - she represents the thinking of a whole lot of people.
Mitt Romney is being treated like royalty within the party instead of scorned and ridiculed.
Romney would make GWB look like an rank amateur where it comes to big government conservatism.
They clearly have not learned their lesson at all.
Newt's biggest problem in the 1990s was the art of communication, especially 1995. Democrats had a bulls-eye on him yet he kept feeding them lines to use against republicans. Clinton was at home playing against the conservative extremist. Then came GWB, talk about lack of communication skills. NO MORE REPUBLICAN SKILLS THAT CANT EXPLAIN COMPLICATED THINGS SIMPLY!!!
RE:” For everyone who said that 2008 was too important to not vote for McCain, that the GOP would learn their lesson after the election... all I can say is: they didn't learn. “
I was a Mark Levin fan for years but the last straw for me was before the election he said 'we must fix the party after WE win the election' for them. Why the hell would elected republicans fix anything if they won again??? And fans think Levin is so smart! A freeper told me before the election we could “Hold McCain's feet to the fire” after he (we win) wins the election. I asked him if he was nuts, after the last 4 years of GWB???
Many FReepers may regard Dole as a RINO for being too much of a deal maker. People need to understand the circumstances that Dole grew up in. Dole is a WW 2 veteran from the FDR era. Prior to 1994, he probably thought a GOP Congress was impossible. Given this thinking, he would make deals to have the GOP some say in the legislative process. After 1994, Dole thought to himself, “Wow! I never thought it would happen in my lifetime. Now what do I do as Senate Majority Leader?”
I had no idea. A pity he left his true calling in life.
DJ is correct that had Dole gotten all of the Perot votes in 1996, he would have eked out an Electoral College victory, with exactly 270 EVs (he would have carried PA by the narrowest of margins to put him over the top).
Yes. With all of it.
He wouldn’t have gotten it all though. My mother’s aunt was a Perot voter who went for Gore in 2000.
Just running a better race is what he needed to do. The guy I saw on Jay Leno (to talk about his Super Bowl commercial maybe) could have countered Bubba on the personality front.
Now whether Perot’s absence would have given Bush 1 the victory in 1992 is a matter of great debate. I think Bush would have been the second choice of most of them (2/3 voted Republican for Congress 2 years later) but many would not have voted so it’s hard to say.
I remember reading that Bush had closed to within 1 point before Iran-Contra October Surprise.
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